Ashish Tulsian:

Hi. Welcome to Retrocast. Today, my guest is Ziad Kassabieh. He’s the CEO of Advanced Food Company. Ziad’s Journey is is a beautiful one from Lebanon to Saudi Arabia, from working at the bottom of the restaurant to developing 45 plus concepts over the last 19 years. His journey talked a lot about what attention to detail can bring to life. Today he’s running a lot of successful concepts in Saudi Arabia, which I believe can only happen when you’re really obsessed about what you do. Ziad calls it passion. I will still call it obsession. I think this conversation is enriching for all the hospitality professionals because Ziad is somebody who I found his feet were on the ground who understands what servant leadership is all about, who understands what it means to listen to the bottom while keeping your vision high. I enjoyed this conversation. I’m sure you will. Welcome to Restrocast. Ziad, welcome to Restrocast.

Ziad Kassabieh:

Thank you. Thank you. It’s a pleasure.

Ashish Tulsian:

Thank you for agreeing to do this. Advanced Food company is what you run today. But before we go into what is happening today and what are your plans in future, I want to take you down the memory lane. I want to know where it all started for you.

Ziad Kassabieh:

I started eventually, I’m in Saudi Arabia for the past 19 years. I started my career at the age of 15. I used to work during summer time in a restaurant for a for a family. I started in the kitchen and this is where I discovered my passion and this industry. So 15 and 16 and 17 and I was working during summer. In Lebanon. This is where I started my career. After that, I decided to study the hospitality management and then to take my master’s from Lebanon. And the journey started. I was from the team opening of Finicia, we worked for few months as an internship and after that the first job for me, because when you said when you want to start in hospitality, especially in hotels, they have to start from scratch. No one can start as a managerial position. And during that time I couldn’t find something that’s, you know, when we were young, we want to become directly managers and this is wrong. So my first job was as an operator to to to answer the calls and take reservations. And then after that, I got many promotion. Where I reached after one year and a half front office supervisor, night auditor, and during my job as a night auditor, our shift was from 11 p.m. to 7 a.m.. So eventually we work when the people sleep and in the morning when I finished my shift and going to the university, you see all the people, all the kids going to schools, people are going to work. I’m going to have a sleep for two, three hours and then to go back to my university where basically I used to sleep during of some classes. And then one day…

Ashish Tulsian:

This was also back in Lebanon?

Ziad Kassabieh:

Yeah, I I’m still in Lebanon. Then one day one of my teacher, he woke me up. He told me Ziad it’s not possible to sleep every time in my classes. And during that time we also had this ego that we have experience. We want to have the fast success, the fast promotion. This was during that time I was doing this as a passion, but eventually with the time I discovered that this was the healthiest way. Because after all of this is this is where I am now. So I told him, he asked me Ziad what is your dream? What do you want to be? I told him I want to become a general manager for a hotel. Then he told me if you’re going to continue like this you’ll will never be a GM for a hotel. I told him why I have one year, one year and a half, two years of experience, and I’m on the right track. He told me during that time, if you will continue with the room division business, which is, you know, everything related to reservation, housekeeping, laundry, reception, all of this related to hotels you will not be able to because you don’t have any experience in food and beverage. During that time from wearing suit, having around $1,200 salary, during that time, because I was independent, I decided to go back again and start from scratch with $300 as commis or runner. And I work in Lebanon during my day for four or five years, and then I came to Saudi Arabia and with the 18-19 years, I was able to open more than 45, 48 restaurants. And I continued in the food and beverage. And now this is where I am.

Ashish Tulsian:

In last 19 years, you have opened 45 to 48 restaurants?

Ziad Kassabieh:

Yes, Yes. In Saudi Arabia, it was in different companies we started.

Ashish Tulsian:

There is a there is a lot that I would want to dive in and, you know, in. But, you know, let me just go back to Lebanon, days. You’re talking about going back to being the commis in the kitchen and the fact that you eventually just continued with the restaurant business. What happened to the dream of being the GM of a hotel?

Ziad Kassabieh:

I found my my passion more maybe, and maybe the opportunities who was available during that time for me. The people working in the food and beverage in hotels are totally different than the operators who are working in the nightlife, the restaurants, and cafes. It’s a different scenario. The food and beverage and our industry, not in a hotel, is very tough, very challenging. You have to, there is a lot of aspects that should be taken into consideration because in the hotel you have this venue, you will decide, okay, Italian restaurant, Lebanese restaurant, Indian restaurant, Mediterranean. And that’s it. But in restaurant sector, it’s different. You should find the right location for your brand. You should start working on the concept development. What does it mean? Concept development is that you have to work on you should understand what do you want to provide in order to start doing the drawings, the 3Ds for the concept, and at the same time to work on the branding and the name selection and based based on that you have to go next or later on with to developing a proper menu, having a proper pricing and and to reach a successful story. But in the hotels are much easier. You get the staff you work on the menu, you do food costs, you put your margin and that’s it and the rest is the role of sales and marketing to let this venues work, not it’s not the job of the GM, of the of the restaurants or the or the chef or the people, no. In our business, everyone is involved. We work on and on. And in the hotel, it’s like I respect this a lot, but this is different school. It’s like it’s the army and it’s something like business oriented. It’s different.

Ashish Tulsian:

What bothers me at times is that 70% of the jobs in the hospitality industry are in the restaurants. But the course is still called hotel management. Why is there like why is the restaurant not waking up and making it a restaurant management as a degree?

Ziad Kassabieh:

I don’t want to say it, but this is I’m going to be very transparent. If you start as a commis in any hotel restaurant and if you are able to prove yourself, maybe you will have a chance, maybe not to become maybe an outlet manager later on. An assistant food and beverage manager, FnB manager director, maybe. But the chances in the restaurants are higher because investors of the restaurants are higher than the hotels. You open 100 restaurants, you open ten hotels. So the percentage are different. That’s why you see the people who work for the food and beverage are the high turnover or the majority are working in the restaurant business because the opportunities are bigger there.

Ashish Tulsian:

Correct, but then why does academic education, so you just basically said that hotels are a different player. And to build restaurants or to work in the restaurant is a very, very different game. Yeah, but then people who are coming from educational institutions are all coming from hotel management. Nobody’s coming from restaurant management. Is what I’m saying.

Ziad Kassabieh:

Because until now I’ve heard that there is a program with Le Roches. It’s related to food and beverage. But in during our time and I believe during this time now there is something called hotel management hospitality management, or if you want to have an executive MBA, which is I’m planning to do a global hospitality management. So it’s related only to this curriculum.

Ashish Tulsian:

Le Roches, I know, you know, does a F and B management. Yeah, you know, I think.

Ziad Kassabieh:

Glion of course there’s a lot of high end schools schools globally but this is where we are and sometimes you will see you and you will be surprised that I know also a success story from a few people who are GM for hotels now or maybe CEOs for food and beverage companies that maybe that their major was maybe economics or finance or some. One of them is IT But he didn’t, he studied IT. He didn’t find the passion Uh, in this industry. He discover that he likes the restaurant, but he he was a graduate during that time in IT and he continued he continued this career. And of course it’s important to have of course your bachelor’s or master’s especially nowadays. But what’s important also is to keep on developing yourself. The school or the university will give you the know how for three years, four years, and the B.A. two years and the Master’s. And that’s a but this is not enough. We have to keep always on doing research where the market is standing. Now with the social media, you have a huge potential to do research in all the countries, especially when you have a new idea. Maybe you would be inspired. Was one of the dishes you developed in your way also reading books is very important. I’ve read I’ve I’ve read a lot of books and one of my favorite was the story of Starbucks Howard Schultz. I don’t know if you if you had the opportunity to read it. I know for me it’s one of the best books for the company who used to lose money and look now where Starbucks is uh it’s a very it’s a very big achievement.

Ashish Tulsian:

No I think I think Starbucks is the Apple of FnB industry or the restaurant industry.

Ziad Kassabieh:

Absolutely, absolutely.

Ashish Tulsian:

Absolutely amazing. And I think for me personally, Starbucks one thing that really stands out for me with respect to Starbucks is that, you know, while there is a lot of chatter about consistency and, you know, copy pasting your model, keeping it like, you know, extremely scalable, which is true for McDonald’s, which is true for Subway and so on. In case of Starbucks, actually no two Starbucks stores look same. Yeah, every Starbucks looks different as in, you know that architecture.

Ziad Kassabieh:

Atmosphere.

Ashish Tulsian:

Atmosphere, architecture. In fact in many countries you will find their you know, their outlook, their architecture absolutely different. And that really surprises me. And then I, you know, dig a little deeper and turns out that as per the guidelines, Starbucks does not enforce having the same architecture everywhere. In fact, that is a piece that they allow the basis, the space that is being designed.

Ziad Kassabieh:

Of course.

Ashish Tulsian:

You know, they are allowed to do that, which which is really mind boggling for me because they have been able to replicate this without, you know, spoiling the Starbucks experience across the world, of course.

Ziad Kassabieh:

And especially they they they are they only need you have to. And as a franchisee, as a franchisee, they would tell you the franchisor will tell you that’s at least but for for one thing you have to take into consideration. Yes, maybe I agree with you about the decoration, the atmosphere. They don’t push the franchisee on on this one, but they push him on the size of the round tables. If you see in Starbucks worldwide and any Starbucks, there’s no square. All of them.

Ashish Tulsian:

Oh, wow. I didn’t know that.

Ziad Kassabieh:

Yeah.

Ashish Tulsian:

Okay. Okay. And why is that?

Ziad Kassabieh:

They made a lot of studies psychologically on the people who wants to come to sit alone, who wants to or has issues or has a problem, who wants to be, someone is sitting, the atmosphere. They have their own philosophy with this. And I believe it’s working.

Ashish Tulsian:

Very interesting. Yeah, I’m going to I’m going to notice this now. So Ziad now back to your back to your study How what got you here. How come you landed in Saudi Arabia from Lebanon?

Ziad Kassabieh:

Okay. You know, Lebanon is the one used to be and now he is. I wish one day he will he will be stronger, stronger than before. But Lebanon is the destination for tourism for all the, uh. And he’s on the roadmap for all the GCC countries, for the Middle Eastern countries. So I was lucky to started my career was was strong People where I’ve learned a lot about them. But after the issues that started in Lebanon in 2005, I felt that maybe I have to explore my opportunities outside Lebanon. I was still young during that time and I was planning to have a career and to do something big. Of course, to have a family. And I felt during that time, unfortunately, Lebanon was not the right option for me, so I had to leave. So I went to, I forgot to tell you also that I before before coming to Saudi Arabia, I went to Elion House Hotel and Nigeria, Lagos. I went there as an operations manager. I was young, but I couldn’t stay. More than 40-45 days in Nigeria during that time was very dangerous for me and I decided to go back to Lebanon and then I got the opportunity to come to Saudi Arabia and I started my career in Saudi basically by the end of 2005.

Ashish Tulsian:

And what was your first assignment?

Ziad Kassabieh:

The first position? I came as a multi-unit manager, and then with the time.

Ashish Tulsian:

For what kind of restaurant?

Ziad Kassabieh:

We built a Saudi concept during that time called Teayana. Teayana It’s in Arabic we call it like our tea, Shaheena. What I saw during that time, I was from the team of the development where we build and the core of their business was a tea shop, okay? And we used to have 99 different types of of teas. Divided into different categories. We used to have the green, the green tea, we also have the black tea. We used to have the white Tea and the herbals. And of course we made a proper menu that where we discussed about the and we selected the type of food that is matching with this concept and we were able to have a success story and we did opening and maybe one down less than two years we opened more than four outlets in Jeddah.

Ashish Tulsian:

And you were the manager for this multi unit chain?

Ziad Kassabieh:

No, I was from the team. I was a multi unit manager. But I was reporting during that time to the operations manager.

Ashish Tulsian:

Got it then. Then what happened?

Ziad Kassabieh:

I moved to I had the opportunity and after that time to move into Iraqi group. It’s a new company that I moved on after Teayana, but I was able to develop many brands for them during that time and, and mainly they were the coffee lounges Chocolate Lounge we bought during that time, Chocolate lounge from Italy. And with this and we opened the biggest shop in Tahlia during that time, maybe 2007, 2008. I don’t recall the years exactly and the space was around 1300 square meters. I continued with them and we opened several.

Ashish Tulsian:

1300 square meter? Wow.

Ziad Kassabieh:

It was huge, man. Oh, yeah.

Ashish Tulsian:

And this was like, well, what kind of concept was it?

Ziad Kassabieh:

It was the chocolate lounge you know the thick chocolate. It’s not the hot chocolate. The the smooth one. No, it’s the real, real hot chocolate. And we, we made this concept with the franchisor during that time because we were having three floors on the ground floor. We built the retail where you can come and taste and select the quality of chocolate because during the during that time there is a level of of that cacao that you want with some people prefer the dark chocolate 90%, 77% 60%. All of this. On the second one we used to have the restaurant which there were Italian restaurant during that time and the last one was like for coffee for a it was a lounge. During that time with the Shisha.

Ashish Tulsian:

Where did you get this understanding of building the concept? What, what, what it took for you to take up such a job and then deliver on it? Like what kind of what kind of learning you had to go through?

Ziad Kassabieh:

I faced a lot of challenges, but I teach myself to not fail. For example, for someone who didn’t study engineering, I know how to read now electrical map. I know how to read drawings. We don’t get this in the universities. We got this in life. Okay, So with the time, every time you open a restaurant, you learn something. Until now, after this years of experience, we’re talking around 24 years of experience. I’m still learning. We have to stay humble. Ego should be away. We should listen to people. Sometimes one of your colleague, one of your staff will give you an email from his point of view. You have to listen. We listen. I listen personally. And this is our philosophy in the company and we work as a colleague Yet family and I have an open door policy as a CEO so I can know everything and I can help always and support no need to have this distance between the staff. So going back to the question, you learn every time you open a restaurant, you learn something. And during that time and I believe when you put a dedication, a dedicated time for 15, 16, 17 hours, and during that time I was going back home, 11, midnight, sleep for six, 7 hours and then go back again. Then you go to the contractors and see what are you doing here? That why you’re doing this? You ask a lot of questions and if you have a proper people and I was lucky to have a good people, they used to work with me during that time. I took this experience and later on my experience was required to open more and more and more because during that time thank God I had a success story and I’m keeping up to now Of course.

Ashish Tulsian:

But building concepts is tough. And it’s tough because it’s not really only about concept being good or bad, it’s about audience accepting the concept as you expected it to be. And that’s why so many people end up bringing existing concepts to the land instead of building, you know. How many concepts like, Well, how was the failure for you?

Ziad Kassabieh:

It depends. We have we had a lot of success story and of course we had some failures at a certain level, but if you ask me now, after all of this experience, uh, that before you doing everything, you have to control your CapEx investment, you can’t be on there. You have to put a proper budget and you have to take your time. If you put 2 million, if you exceeded 2 million by 50,000, hundred thousand, acceptable, more than that is not acceptable. Second, she’s number one also for me is the location. Having a successful brand, having a good quality of food, having a good service and the wrong location. That’s a failure. Um, what is the challenges that we used to face during that time? At the beginning and was still fresh with this experience, that we didn’t know during that time what is the top location and who can identify this is the perfect location for this concept, whether this is the other one. All right. But when we did a lot of focus groups, we invited a lot of people, different nationalities, locals. We prepared plenty of questions. If you want to go to this place, which area you prefer, why? Accessibility. During that time, when you understand the country very well and understand the geography of the country very well, you will be able you will you will say that I want to do healthy concept, basically, and this one. And of course, if we select X location, you have to study this location very well. Is there any concept that is similar? What is the average check? What is this? What is that to have? This is to do your your your, your our market study based on that. So those are the main elements that I had. And of course, if you if you hire staff without a plans when you don’t put a specific uh, salary scale, if you keep it like this, it’s a failure if you don’t have a strong procurement.

Ashish Tulsian:

But these are I, I think these are business failures. I understand what you’re saying and it’s very, very important. And while I would love to, you know, circle back on that, but I am asking that did you have a concept failure where concept was executed well, or you thought it was executed well, but audience either failed to understand it or you were too early? Or the or like what you guys built were too ahead of its time. You know, at times concepts fail and I see concepts. I mean, whenever somebody talks about, you know, concepts developing new concepts, especially not from the home market, I always wonder that what happens when you are ahead of time or when you are too authentic for audiences’ taste buds. How have you faced any of that?

Ziad Kassabieh:

Yes, maybe if we’re going to go back from 2008, I did the consultancy for a client and it’s not it’s It’s not a consultancy. It’s was a support from him for him and he wants to open at the coffee shop during that time in Makkah. We, we, we decided to open a coffee concept in Makkah during that time and Makkah was not ready at this at this stage. So I asked him to consider to shut that during this time. But he insists on this one especially there’s no he was like a guy that he wants to open the coffee shop because he believes that this will work. I guarantee this one for him. I told him, listen, I don’t see anything special and this one, not even the beans.

Ashish Tulsian:

You were you were consulting for him?

Ziad Kassabieh:

Yes. Okay. And he was a friend and is still a friend. Then I told him, Listen, man, I should. You should not do this. He told me. I know Makkah better than you. I know what the people wants. Then I told him, okay, I will help you. Whatever you want you have my experience. Then I helped him. But unfortunately, he close the restaurants, the the coffee shop during that time, after one year or one year and a half, one year, four months, something like that. And of course I feel sorry about him. But what I’ve learned also from this experience is that if I see that something I don’t believe and I would say my mind, I would tell him, I’m sorry, I cannot help you with this because I see this as a failure because I should not be a diplomatic person with an investor or for someone who’s asking me my opinion, at least when he’s asking me my for my consultancy or my opinion. Uh, we should be very transparent and I should be very obvious with them. And I cannot say that I will tell him what are my concerns and it’s his decision to take it. No, if this decision, I don’t believe in something. So I should not. I should not do it. Now, after these years Yeah, I become stronger to say, no, I will not do that.

Ashish Tulsian:

So today you’re doing Advanced Food Company. Tell me a little bit about that.

Ziad Kassabieh:

Advanced What company was established 2017. I started with me and one Tibor to be honest with you. And Tibor, he is still working with us until now and we started was had a Harrat, it’s a Lebanese cuisine was was opened 2018 during during this this period I was planning and I was working on a concept that the atmosphere the quality of the food, the variety of the food and the prices and and the details, everything to be available in one umbrella. How during the time I didn’t know. So gradually I put I work with a designer to work on a concept they told me, What do you see in this shop? What do you want? What what was your message? I told him I want to do something. It’s like I’m sitting on the street. I want to look at the buildings, see the people are putting their laundry, the cleaning material. Yeah. This. The something nostalgic old one. I’m not talking about new towers, new advanced. No, we’re talking about nostalgic things. So Harrat is like Harra. Harra It’s like somebody sitting on a market and you have the guy who’s doing laundry, barber, supermarket, you know, it’s. And small street. And why we selected this this cuisine, because our food, the Lebanese cuisine, half of it is the street food. But we put it in a different way and we presented in a different way. And the way that is matching with the identity of Harrat and we when once we opened at this time, we used to cater for more than, the shop was around 380 square meters, 360. We used to do 1200 covers a day.

Ashish Tulsian:

Oh wow and this is opening 2018?

Ziad Kassabieh:

Yes. In Riyadh in 2003, first branch was in Riyadh. Now we have the second one at the zone. So when I saw that what I love my passion and this.

Ashish Tulsian:

And was this your restaurant?

Ziad Kassabieh:

Hundred percent. No it was I’m the CEO of the company, but it’s it’s a family business. Okay. And after that being in the restaurant was, I’m still I’m still in the opening stage. Then one time I saw a man, he told his wife, then I think this guy who decided to put all of this is not normal because how come he is looking to all this Details from the flooring, from the floor that has to be dirty. Look, you should not make it clean. Not even the toilets. Remember the old public toilets. It’s a Harra. It should not be clean. It’s clean, of course. But the wall, the having like a dirty wallpaper, the sink. We made it on purpose to look dirty. All of this. We created this. Something funny. And trust me, what gave the success for this restaurant is not us. Not our marketing. It is the social media, when the people use that during that time because they used to take pictures on Snapchat, Instagram, Facebook, all of these platforms and they use and they helped us a lot with this one. And if to have 1000 to 1200 covers a day, it was from God first, Allah. And after that the people helped us a lot. And this is where we I, this is where we are now.

Ashish Tulsian:

Awesome. And and then what happened? Sp Harrat was the first one.

Ziad Kassabieh:

My number one question for me is the Indian cuisine. My favorite cuisine, My number one cuisine is not the Lebanese cuisine, as a Lebanese no. It is the Indian cuisine, because I respect this cuisine a lot.

Ashish Tulsian:

Indian?

Ziad Kassabieh:

Yeah, and we did a lot of success story before in the previous companies with the Indian cuisine. So we named that Ruhi. Ruhi. It’s like Guruhi, which is soul. And we were inspired by one of the artist, uh, Matilda, or something like that. I forgot the name, but it’s very difficult and then we introduced Ruhi and 2000, end of 2018, beginning of 2019, we had the same success story that we did on Harrat, but of course not the number of covers. Ruhi is a humble way for me. Is the number one in Riyadh as an Indian cuisine. Maybe we’re not the number one in the Lebanese cuisine. Yes, maybe there’s a lot of competition. But with India, no one can compete us, I’m sure about this.

Ashish Tulsian:

I’m going to try that.

Ziad Kassabieh:

You have to. You’re Invited. And we have two branches. One in the zone and the other one with the social dining in mamlaka. And Ruhi took for the past two years the highly recommended Indian cuisine by Caterer on a two consecutive year. And I’m sure that is going to take a this year.

Ashish Tulsian:

Wow.

Ziad Kassabieh:

Yeah, that’s it’s different and as maybe I’m talking with an emotion for this event was the cuisine.

Ashish Tulsian:

What’s your what’s your favorite dish in Indian cuisine?

Ziad Kassabieh:

All of them. But yeah, the basics. I’m a guy who is very simple, but my number one dish is the Dal Makhani.

Ashish Tulsian:

Black lentils.

Ziad Kassabieh:

Yeah. And I prefer some of the naan, maybe Bhuna gosht or other gosht. Of course. The butter chicken and the masala. By default, Number one. Yeah, one time. Let me tell you the story about Ruhi also. I went to London before doing Ruhi and there was seeing because in London there’s the high-end Indian cuisine in this in this market. So I visited most of them. Dishoom we want to talk a lot of a lot of friends. Yeah. One of the restaurants I saw that is providing the grills better than us. Okay. And I couldn’t accept between me and myself and I’m sure with the naan with the naan with the Biriyani, with the subzi, All of this we’re Fine. Yeah. But when you see someone who’s providing something better than you, it’s something challenging. Hmm. Okay, let’s come. Let’s. What is the issue? Is it the chicken, the shrimp, is it the meat, the marination is the spices. Why? We have to be better, even if we have the success. If even if we’re making money. This is the. This is my style of management. If I want, I don’t stop where I am. I always look to be better and better. And with the time when I believe that was someone who cares a lot about about every single detail, I believe this is where the success will be. During the time I didn’t know that, I thought that I’m a regular person who loves to go with every single detail, but I discovered that this was very good for me.

Ashish Tulsian:

Awesome. And then what? What after Ruhi?

Ziad Kassabieh:

After Ruhi we opened Oxar. During COVID, no one was able to go out. So I watched the Vikings series and I like the way they eat the world they loved.

Ashish Tulsian:

And I haven’t watched the series. You have to paint the picture.

Ziad Kassabieh:

Yeah, I it’s maybe for the people who watched the Vikings they can can go to Oxar. They would see it’s like, you know, the ship and the vessels. It’s from the ceiling. We created the same atmosphere because the time the Vikings used to use the weapons a lot. So we made the box as When you come and when they choose their own stick to their own weapon, it can be any type of knife. It depends on your character which knife can attract you. Yeah, it’s something funny, you know. It’s something nice. It’s something that no one is doing it. Okay. And we also work a lot on the details of the dishes. For example, I remember this concept cost me a lot with the Chinaware because to to have something that’s coming from the nature, not the regular plate because you cannot make it in a very simple plate. The concept will not will not look like this the way you want to present it. So this was our investment and we made also a success story and we’re doing very well. And we opened two years ago in The Esplanade.

Ashish Tulsian:

How how big is Oxar?

Ziad Kassabieh:

How many square meters around 440, two floors.

Ashish Tulsian:

Wow, okay, it’s a steakhouse?

Ziad Kassabieh:

It’s a prime steakhouse. The best cuts.

Ashish Tulsian:

I’m going to get some good Wagyu?

Ziad Kassabieh:

Of course. Definitely. I believe you have to also visit and give me your opinion.

Ashish Tulsian:

I need to tell you, you know, I. I have a, you know, commitment to myself for a very, very long time, never have a bad meal. And I and I come through on my commitment three times a day. I never have a bad meal. So all the restaurants that you’re telling me that is getting added to my list, but I’m going to run a big bill on you.

Ziad Kassabieh:

Perfect. I’m looking forward. Last one is Maitre Choux. Maitre Choux It’s it’s a concept. It’s a franchise coming from London, there used to be a specialized in the Choux, which is the, you know, the the mini choux and the eclair. And they decided to open the first flagship in the Middle East. And we developed we made a beautiful shop. It’s around 440, one floor, high ceiling Amazing one of its the location is at the at you walk and you have another one at the boulevard and the French destination and amazing concept you can go there you will have a variety of eclair variety of cakes, variety of chocolate, different types of chocolate. The larger the like the things like, you remember the capris and the small things. Yeah. This where we sit and maybe we will get a box one shot on it and at the same time they worked a lot on the on the menu we did we developed a brunch, a breakfast and brunch menu. And we’re doing very well also with this concept.

Ashish Tulsian:

I think in London they have a they have a flagship in London, right?

Ziad Kassabieh:

They have three shops.

Ashish Tulsian:

Yeah I think.

Ziad Kassabieh:

Yes. Yeah.

Ashish Tulsian:

Got it. I think one of them is what is that what is that

Ziad Kassabieh:

South Ken? No. Kings Road?

Ashish Tulsian:

Kings Road I think.

Ziad Kassabieh:

Yeah. It’s a beautiful concept.

Ashish Tulsian:

Yeah.

Ziad Kassabieh:

Later. The last maybe two weeks. Two weeks ago we launched a new item. We call it Miracle or miracle. It’s. It’s a miracle the taste is a miracle. You have to go and see. I would not tell you what that the description. But I believe you should pay a visit. There and give me your opinion.

Ashish Tulsian:

Absolutely. So how many restaurants in total are you running and Advanced Food Company?

Ziad Kassabieh:

And now we have two Harrat have two Ruhi we have two Maitre Choux. We have Oxar now. We’re talking six, seven brands and we’re operating 15 cloud kitchens and Beyond Catering.

Ashish Tulsian:

Beyond Catering?

Ziad Kassabieh:

Yeah, it’s a catering company. We started this company last year. We did good on the first six months because we started in April. It’s fine for next year we have a different direction for it and I hope we will have a success story or so.

Ashish Tulsian:

You continue to leverage all your brands and cuisines and this company?

Ziad Kassabieh:

Yes, this is this is that. This is the advantage because when you have an expert Indian chef with an expert in Lebanese cuisine with an expert patisserie, you will have a beautiful buffet or dynasty or an a la carte menu or whatever. And it’s an advantage that maybe not anyone can have it. And we’re going to have the Beyond Catering under the umbrella of all of our restaurants.

Ashish Tulsian:

Ziad how do you look at, you know, as a restaurant operator, I can I can see your attention to detail, quality, you know, in your in your speak, you know, especially when you are talking about your concepts, I can almost borderline feel them, you know that How invested you are, you know, in each of them restaurants. Restaurant is one of the toughest businesses. I think that it’s the toughest business, at least in my experience of my own, my own adventure was not only because, you know, the margins are nowadays, you know, different, but because it’s a honey trap. It looks very fancy. It’s a trap. It looks very fancy, it looks very easy. But, you know, most of the operators like the difference between good and bad operators that I have seen is their discipline with bottomline, discipline with numbers, discipline with wastages their, you know, their production.

Ziad Kassabieh:

A lot of things.

Ashish Tulsian:

Yeah, the back end, inventory control, etc.. What’s your what’s your secret sauce?

Ziad Kassabieh:

What is our secret sauce being starting from scratch and everything. And if you want to lead and especially when I have sometimes some challenges with the finance that we need to do the production for everything we produce in our kitchen and we need to do the wastage for everything we throw in our kitchen, we should have a proper inventory. Maybe I’m going with a technicality now. Yeah. And at the end of the of the months, if you have an adjustment to start a clean inventory for the next month opening. So closing stock minus purchases to reach your food costs, this is what you have to start always in the kitchen having a central kitchen. Now we’re considering to have this one because I don’t think we need a central kitchen for one brand, one branch after  having two, it’s time to have a central kitchen. This will help us a lot. This will reduce the number of staff, this will reduce the food costs. This will let the procurement have a privilege to bring a lot of supplies and deliver in one area. By doing all of this, you will be supplying to the kitchen by portion and you will be able to monitor properly your stock and your inventory.

Ashish Tulsian:

So how obsessed are you with those numbers, The wastage, inventory numbers?

Ziad Kassabieh:

I’m lucky to have a successful team, because all my team from the CFO or the director of Operation and marketing, all of them, we have something in common which is passion and it may be that obsessed already. Or they became obsessed because of me. I don’t know. But we love what we are doing and we don’t call it obsessive obsession. We call it passion. And for example, if we realize that one of there is a problem in one of the fish, we’ll print it. Why? Then we don’t go home, or we don’t close the subject until we know what is the real problem. And this is something you have to do it frequently. The suppliers will change always their prices, which means you have to revise always the recipes. If you don’t do this, you will have a problem with the bottom line. You will have a problem and this will lead for the losses.

Ashish Tulsian:

What about delivery? Your restaurant concepts sound you know from the sound of it sounds like very experiential and you care about it. What are you delivering? Apart from cloud kitchens after delivering it?

Ziad Kassabieh:

All of our catch, all of our brands are available on Jahez, HungerStation, Chefz and the rest of the platforms. The percentage I can share with you, the percentage of delivery from our total sales is around 7-8%.

Ashish Tulsian:

Oh wow. That’s. Good. You’re not. You’re not dependent on them.

Ziad Kassabieh:

Of course. You cannot, because it’s different. And I aim to the to my cloud kitchens to reach an X amount or an X percentage because they don’t exist outside. But for a restaurant you have, whether the people wants to come they will have to experience. They will have the service. I would enjoy the atmosphere.

Ashish Tulsian:

You mean you mean 7-8% from a restaurant?

Ziad Kassabieh:

7-8% of my revenue is from just for delivery.

Ashish Tulsian:

From the restaurant? Or From the cloud kitchens as well?

Ziad Kassabieh:

I’m not talking about the cloud kitchens. From the restaurant itself. From the.

Ashish Tulsian:

Restaurant. Okay. Okay. And when you said that you have 15 cloud kitchens, is that what you said? Yes. So 15 cloud kitchens operate same brands or they have other brands?

Ziad Kassabieh:

Okay. No, in each kitchen. This is how the operators should play. If let’s, say, you have an Italian restaurant who said that you cannot deliver burger for a cloud kitchen. You have fryer, you have you have butchery, you have meat. So if you have, let’s say, pasta or whatever, any any name for this Italian restaurant, which you already paying rent, paying utilities, paying salaries, paying all of this, what is the problem of generating extra revenue minus the percentage of the aggregator and the food cost? That’s how much will it be? Let’s say 15, 25, 40, 45%, 50%, 50% of the total sales of the cloud kitchens would be profit at the zero CapEx, zero cost. So instead of doing one within 15 and maybe after Ramadan, I would be reaching another ten. Why? Because if, let’s say the market drop down, there’s exams, there’s specific events, especially in what’s happening now, we’re lucky to watch what’s happening now in Saudi Arabia. We have to cover ourselves and we have to work on alternatives. Cloud kitchens is now the support for the existing brand outside, I mean, and the outlets and the restaurant.

Ashish Tulsian:

And that that’s exactly what I want to ask you next. What’s what’s happening in Saudi Arabia? The market is buzzing, but, you know.

Ziad Kassabieh:

Market is what?

Ashish Tulsian:

Buzzing like it’s it’s there’s a lot of buzz for growth. All is, you know, coming in the future. How are you looking at it from an operator’s lens are you nervous about the so much competition coming in or are you excited about you know, the opportunity?

Ziad Kassabieh:

I’m lucky to to watch this this period of Saudi Arabia. I’ve watched a lot in the past and I’m lucky to see now what’s happening now. I’m very excited. This created more challenges, increased the passion on us that instead of having 10, 20, 25 competitors, now we’re having 50, 70 double triple. But at the end you should go back to the ABC of the business, select the right franchise, opening the right franchise timing two timing for opening pricing. Not all of them have the same. So we’re not afraid, but we know what we want. We have the expertise. We’re very happy to see people are having the success and at the same time, we’re very sorry to see if people that are afraid, that are facing the failure.

Ashish Tulsian:

But there’s going to be a lot of correction in the market anyway. Right. So many restaurants have just appeared in last three years. Yeah. Alone, right. How you look at correction happening in the market? Why do you see why do you see so many like one of the number one or two or three reasons you see restaurants that opened in last three years are shutting down or, you know what, what’s the number one or number two, three reasons according to you here?

Ziad Kassabieh:

In a for example each one maybe is looking for an exposure. Maybe he decided to open a restaurant or he thinks, like if I’m going to put 5 million, I’m going to make, let’s say 500,000 a month or 1 million, or maybe I will sell my investment.

Ashish Tulsian:

If I put 5 million, how much will I make?

Ziad Kassabieh:

Investment? You should have done an investment in three or three years and a half, but not from the first year. And some people that don’t have, um, they’re not patient enough to to wait. Or maybe they didn’t hire the right people with them or they did not consult the right people. This is very important. For example, if I have an issue at the court, I need to speak to a lawyer. No one can can do this. Why We go to a lawyer to finalize and to represent us and everything. And we don’t have a consultant that can help us with this experience and telling us what are the rules and regulations in the country What are the challenges.

Ashish Tulsian:

You see a lot of people going wrong at that basics?

Ziad Kassabieh:

Yes, because for me, I’ve seen and one of the outlets, they shut down 12 restaurants. 12 brands, within three months. What is what what is the reason behind? We should we should we should analyze. They made the short short period plan. They did not wait and maybe they did not work properly on the marketing. They did not we don’t want to repeat everything, but at the end this caused them to lose X amount of money.

Ashish Tulsian:

Ziad What’s your what’s your favorite restaurant in the city outside of your own creation?

Ziad Kassabieh:

Outside of my, favorite restaurant. Uh, honestly I love all my restaurants.

Ashish Tulsian:

But where do you take your family out? Like, let’s say when you are, but when you are dining out, what’s your choice? Like just one or two?

Ziad Kassabieh:

Love the Chinese restaurant of Ashaya.

Ashish Tulsian:

PF Chang’s?

Ziad Kassabieh:

PF Chang’s. So I take them to P.F. Chang’s because they love Chinese and we don’t have a Chinese restaurant. Yeah, Yeah, that’s it. Trust me that they love the. They love a lot What we do. It’s not because I’m the father. Because they were raised in a way to know the value of the taste of especially if they are kids You would be surprised.

Ashish Tulsian:

Yeah. Awesome. You talked about open door policy as an as a, as a CEO, you talked about team as a family. And I resonate with, you know, those things a lot. What’s your leadership style? And I would ask you to give me some anecdotes, some examples. How do you, you know, do conflict resolution, you know, within the teams? And when do you when you say that it’s an open door policy, I see that it’s one thing that a CEO keeps the door open and that’s altogether a different thing where people walk in and actually share something because people have their own, you know, hiccups at times, even if the door is open, even if you are standing in front of them, at times people don’t speak up. What’s your style of management? What’s happening?

Ziad Kassabieh:

I always go back to my roots. You should not forget where we where we were before, How those people are looking at you, how you used to look to your manager, to your supervisor, smile, shake hands to gather with them. And for example, we do an event every month, but we gather as much as we can, the biggest number of staff, and we make sure that there is always a rotation by having other people, not repetitive ones, so well in order to have the chance to see everyone, we meet them in our office. 30 minutes, 45 minutes. We gather, we get them something. Sometimes we do an event outside the and we do like entertainment things with them. But what’s important for the open door policy is like if let’s say the issue is from the manager or from the direct manager, we should know. He asked, for example, the HR we would go to report this to the HR. Then if I see it’s important to sit, I would tell them, let’s do an investigation as to discuss to that, because an employee and this company was my humble, I would not name the positions, but I’m talking from the basic position to the top position for me are equal. I am equal with everyone also. And that even if I tell them and I refuse to the people to call me, Mr Ziad. I don’t like that.

Ashish Tulsian:

How do you how do you demonstrate that? See, it’s it’s, it’s one thing for a CEO to say that we are equal. How do you how do you demonstrate that for real?

Ziad Kassabieh:

I put a lot of efforts on this. But I’ve heard a lot of things, a lot of GMs restaurant GMs. They came, but some of them want to move to Canada. I want to go to the U.S.. In the exit interview I would like to meet this guy, especially if he spent two or three years with us. I want to meet him for 10 minutes, have a coffee with them, maybe wish him the best of luck. But I want to ask why and I want to feel that he’s not going and is upset. What is moving to a competitor? No, because I like to take care of my people very well. So by having this philosophy, it’s very important that everyone will look at you. It’s like we are humble, just like you feel like them. And especially when you the rewards later on. Sometimes the rewards can be financially, can be psychologically.

Ashish Tulsian:

Tell me a little bit about your family.

Ziad Kassabieh:

Family? I’m married and I have three three children. I have two girls, Lilia, she’s ten. Mohammad is seven and Latisia is seven. And my wife is a clinical psychologist.

Ashish Tulsian:

Seven, seven and ten?

Ziad Kassabieh:

Twins, Yeah, I’m lucky to have twins. One boy one girl and I have my oldest one is is ten. They live here in Saudi Arabia with me.

Ashish Tulsian:

And your wife?

Ziad Kassabieh:

Of course, she lives here also and she’s a clinical psychologist, but unfortunately, she doesn’t work. Now. Her full job is focused on the big of on the biggest family.

Ashish Tulsian:

Oh.

Ziad Kassabieh:

Yeah. Okay.

Ashish Tulsian:

And I mean, people in hospitality industry and especially restaurant space like, hours are different than my my, you know.

Ziad Kassabieh:

Maybe you should make the interview with her, continue with the same. She will complain a lot about this. Of course, we don’t have the 8 to 5 time. We don’t have this privilege. Even if you’re planning to to work in this industry and to work for this, the business. One of my teachers told me during that time, we work when the people enjoy or celebrate.

Ashish Tulsian:

Correct.

Ziad Kassabieh:

That’s different.

Ashish Tulsian:

Exactly. That right. When I explained restaurant industry, hospitality to people is that that when you socialize, exactly When the industry has to be on the job. And when you are not socializing. That’s exactly when they ideally could have socialize but with whom?

Ziad Kassabieh:

Yeah, but.

Ashish Tulsian:

How does your like how has been the family dynamics in terms of your social life?

Ziad Kassabieh:

During weekends of course I give them a lot of of of my time but maybe I don’t give them enough time during weekdays it’s hard maybe 30 minutes 40 minutes maximum and sometimes I don’t see them for the entire day so they understand this I’m they don’t I’m therefore for them we’re trying to have them a proper future and they have to see that also their father is a hard worker because you have to apply this culture inside the house.

Ashish Tulsian:

What do you what do you do to keep yourself nurtured? Like, do you read, do you listen to podcasts? What’s as a CEO, as somebody who is leading the organization, What practices are you deploying to keep yourself enriched?

Ziad Kassabieh:

I work out every day, early morning I do I lift weight and I was four years ago. I was overweight and this led to a lot of health issues. Now I’m fine. Alhumdulillah, but I work out every day and my passion is basketball. I’ve no idea.

Ashish Tulsian:

Do you play?

Ziad Kassabieh:

Yeah, but not like before, because I’m afraid from the injuries, any injury can, can, can be a big headache for me. It’s not the right time, but sometimes with friends, maybe every every month, maybe one or two times per month, just we do this. It’s much more like a gathering. 

Ashish Tulsian:

But that’s, that’s just you feel like light and like that. That your stress buster.

Ziad Kassabieh:

It’s important it’s important. The mental health is also important for the sports to work on your mental health. And it’s important for the brain the way you think, the energy and negativity, all of this because we’re human being at the end, we have the positive side, we have the negative side, but we should know where to go in which direction. So I say everything in life is about a decision. This will end everything. If I have a decision to have a proper life. So I can. And if I don’t want I don’t. if I want to smoke I will smoke, if I don’t if I want to quit smoking, I can quit it’s a decision. So I decided to have a proper life. So that’s why I consider sport 4 to 5 times week.

Ashish Tulsian:

And what’s the learning system like? Do you proactively learn or is it just experience really? Like do you do you read?

Ziad Kassabieh:

Very good question. If you go back about the details about Le Roches during that time, I didn’t have time to read a book or to have I try a lot. I tried a lot to do this. So what I’m planning is to oblige myself by having at least one hour per day and maybe to consider having another executive master’s degree in global hospitality management with Le Roches. This one will push me to read again, to recap again, to create network to be from the alumni of La Roches. This is  my plan.

Ashish Tulsian:

You’re going to take this up soon?

Ziad Kassabieh:

Maybe I will join in April because if I will not join on this April 2024, I have to wait until next April. It’s a program for one year.

Ashish Tulsian:

And is it like a visiting program?

Ziad Kassabieh:

Yes. You have a resident program for two weeks. Every six months you have to spend one week to do the exams and everything and the rest is online. You have to study with the teacher everything that was advanced online. But when it comes to the test, exam, the presentations and all of this, it has to be one in Dubai and the other one and uh, France, Montana and Switzerland.

Ashish Tulsian:

But this is the.

Ziad Kassabieh:

Yeah, this is where the campus is.

Ashish Tulsian:

Yeah. And I think Dubai is the new campus.

Ziad Kassabieh:

Yes. Yes. But it’s because it’s very near. And maybe I consider that start with Dubai and then we’ll move to another one. So that’s what I was thinking, because you can’t stop developing and doing this research. Maybe this one. Man, it’s it’s a bit weird that it’s been maybe five, six years for me, that I didn’t open a book or if I open a book, maybe I’ve never continue this book. Maybe I had the plane. Long flight. Yes, I can read. But is it organized on a daily basis or every two or three days? Unfortunately no because of the timing.

Ashish Tulsian:

Yeah. This was a beautiful conversation.

Ziad Kassabieh:

Thank you. Thank you so much for asking me. It was a pleasure.

Ashish Tulsian:

You know, I can I can totally see how beautiful the journey has been. And thank you. I’m really inspired by the passion for learning. I think all the best for your program. So much. Le Roche And also, I’m going to visit all your restaurants eventually. That’s why this is the only time I’m in Riyadh. I’m on a short time. But as I come here more often, I’m going to make a note of visiting all the restaurants.

Ziad Kassabieh:

It was I’m sure it was a successful episode, and I hope that I shared, with all the audience, the experience that I have and hope to see you soon. Thank you so much.

Ashish Tulsian:

Absolutely. Thank you.