{"id":758,"date":"2023-10-03T10:49:29","date_gmt":"2023-10-03T10:49:29","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/restroworks.com\/restrocast\/?page_id=758"},"modified":"2024-07-17T10:06:22","modified_gmt":"2024-07-17T10:06:22","slug":"karl-goodhew","status":"publish","type":"page","link":"https:\/\/restroworks.com\/restrocast\/karl-goodhew\/","title":{"rendered":"From Tech to Taste: Karl Goodhew&#8217;s Inspiring Journey of Innovation"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>[et_pb_section fb_built=&#8221;1&#8243; fullwidth=&#8221;on&#8221; admin_label=&#8221;Hero Section&#8221; _builder_version=&#8221;4.14.8&#8243; background_image=&#8221;https:\/\/restroworks.com\/restrocast\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/10\/law-firm-27.jpg&#8221; parallax=&#8221;on&#8221; custom_margin=&#8221;-100px||-32px||false|false&#8221; custom_padding=&#8221;|||&#8221; global_colors_info=&#8221;{}&#8221;][et_pb_fullwidth_header title=&#8221;episode #9&#8243; subhead=&#8221;From Tech to Taste: Karl Goodhew&#8217;s Inspiring Journey of Innovation&#8221; button_one_text=&#8221; Listen to this episode now&#8221; button_one_url=&#8221;#audio&#8221; content_max_width=&#8221;900px&#8221; _builder_version=&#8221;4.14.8&#8243; title_font=&#8221;Poppins|600||on|||||&#8221; title_font_size=&#8221;18px&#8221; title_letter_spacing=&#8221;4px&#8221; title_line_height=&#8221;1.8em&#8221; content_font=&#8221;||||||||&#8221; content_font_size=&#8221;18px&#8221; subhead_font=&#8221;recoleta-bold|700|||||||&#8221; subhead_font_size=&#8221;50px&#8221; subhead_line_height=&#8221;1.4em&#8221; background_color=&#8221;#8300E9&#8243; background_color_gradient_start=&#8221;#090b9b&#8221; background_color_gradient_end=&#8221;rgba(166,0,237,0.72)&#8221; background_color_gradient_direction=&#8221;107deg&#8221; background_image=&#8221;https:\/\/restroworks.com\/restrocast\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/10\/karl-goodhew-banner.jpg&#8221; custom_button_one=&#8221;on&#8221; button_one_text_size=&#8221;14px&#8221; button_one_text_color=&#8221;#8300E9&#8243; button_one_bg_color=&#8221;#FFFFFF&#8221; button_one_border_width=&#8221;12px&#8221; button_one_border_color=&#8221;#ffffff&#8221; button_one_border_radius=&#8221;9px&#8221; button_one_letter_spacing=&#8221;2px&#8221; button_one_font=&#8221;Poppins|600||on|||||&#8221; button_one_icon=&#8221;&#x49;||divi||400&#8243; button_one_icon_color=&#8221;#8300E9&#8243; button_one_icon_placement=&#8221;left&#8221; button_one_on_hover=&#8221;off&#8221; button_one_custom_margin=&#8221;|||0px|false|false&#8221; custom_button_two=&#8221;on&#8221; button_two_text_size=&#8221;14px&#8221; button_two_text_color=&#8221;#29cb8b&#8221; button_two_bg_color=&#8221;#ffffff&#8221; button_two_border_width=&#8221;12px&#8221; button_two_border_color=&#8221;#ffffff&#8221; button_two_letter_spacing=&#8221;2px&#8221; button_two_font=&#8221;Poppins|600||on|||||&#8221; button_two_icon=&#8221;&#x24;||divi||400&#8243; custom_margin=&#8221;||38px|||&#8221; custom_padding=&#8221;230px||8vw||false|false&#8221; custom_padding_tablet=&#8221;230px||18vw||false|false&#8221; custom_padding_phone=&#8221;50px||17vw||false|false&#8221; custom_padding_last_edited=&#8221;on|phone&#8221; hover_enabled=&#8221;0&#8243; content_font_size_last_edited=&#8221;off|desktop&#8221; subhead_font_size_tablet=&#8221;40px&#8221; subhead_font_size_phone=&#8221;30px&#8221; subhead_font_size_last_edited=&#8221;on|desktop&#8221; background_last_edited=&#8221;on|tablet&#8221; background_image_tablet=&#8221;https:\/\/restroworks.com\/restrocast\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/10\/karl-goodhew-banner.jpg&#8221; background_image_phone=&#8221;https:\/\/restroworks.com\/restrocast\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/10\/karl-goodhew-mob.jpg&#8221; background_enable_image_tablet=&#8221;on&#8221; background_enable_image_phone=&#8221;on&#8221; button_one_letter_spacing_hover=&#8221;2px&#8221; button_two_letter_spacing_hover=&#8221;2px&#8221; global_colors_info=&#8221;{}&#8221; button_one_text_size__hover_enabled=&#8221;off&#8221; button_two_text_size__hover_enabled=&#8221;off&#8221; button_one_text_color__hover_enabled=&#8221;off&#8221; button_two_text_color__hover_enabled=&#8221;off&#8221; button_one_border_width__hover_enabled=&#8221;off&#8221; button_two_border_width__hover_enabled=&#8221;off&#8221; button_one_border_color__hover_enabled=&#8221;off&#8221; button_two_border_color__hover_enabled=&#8221;off&#8221; button_one_border_radius__hover_enabled=&#8221;off&#8221; button_two_border_radius__hover_enabled=&#8221;off&#8221; button_one_letter_spacing__hover_enabled=&#8221;on&#8221; button_one_letter_spacing__hover=&#8221;2px&#8221; button_two_letter_spacing__hover_enabled=&#8221;on&#8221; button_two_letter_spacing__hover=&#8221;2px&#8221; button_one_bg_color__hover_enabled=&#8221;off&#8221; button_two_bg_color__hover_enabled=&#8221;off&#8221; sticky_enabled=&#8221;0&#8243;]<\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Tune into Restrocast for a captivating conversation with Karl Goodhew, the innovative Chief Technology Officer of BurgerFi. Dive into his remarkable transition from leading tech in retail to shaping the future of fast-casual dining. Explore his tech expertise, culinary journey, and the digital revolution unfolding at BurgerFi!<br \/><\/span><br \/><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"><a href=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/watch?feature=shared&amp;v=QVASh2d7IxE\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" src=\"https:\/\/restroworks.com\/restrocast\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/11\/Youtube.png\" width=\"50\" height=\"50\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-355 alignnone size-thumbnail\" \/><\/a> \u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/episode\/7aQ8ozt1ISPDfPXTN0mFb5?si=s3prFplTSg-1FG7XojNn8A&amp;nd=1\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" src=\"https:\/\/restroworks.com\/restrocast\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/11\/Spotify-1.png\" width=\"50\" height=\"50\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-356 alignnone size-thumbnail\" \/><\/a> \u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/from-tech-to-taste-karl-goodhews-inspiring-journey\/id1649388502?i=1000630019097\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" src=\"https:\/\/restroworks.com\/restrocast\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/11\/apple-podcast.png\" width=\"50\" height=\"50\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-358 alignnone size-thumbnail\" \/><\/a> \u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/music.amazon.in\/podcasts\/0a73fe9e-112f-4ad3-ac57-44ae7a8d46e5\/episodes\/70244f9b-0cc5-4cc4-8cd5-c315ee61c612\/restrocast-from-tech-to-taste-karl-goodhew's-inspiring-journey-of-innovation\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" src=\"https:\/\/restroworks.com\/restrocast\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/11\/Amazon-1.png\" width=\"50\" height=\"50\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-359 alignnone size-thumbnail\" \/><\/a> \u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p>[\/et_pb_fullwidth_header][\/et_pb_section][et_pb_section fb_built=&#8221;1&#8243; custom_padding_last_edited=&#8221;on|desktop&#8221; admin_label=&#8221;Contact Form Section&#8221; _builder_version=&#8221;4.14.8&#8243; background_color=&#8221;#f1f5f9&#8243; max_width=&#8221;96%&#8221; module_alignment=&#8221;center&#8221; custom_margin=&#8221;||100px|&#8221; custom_margin_tablet=&#8221;||100px|&#8221; custom_margin_phone=&#8221;||100px|&#8221; custom_margin_last_edited=&#8221;on|phone&#8221; custom_padding=&#8221;80px||0vw||false|false&#8221; custom_padding_tablet=&#8221;80px||0vw||false|false&#8221; custom_padding_phone=&#8221;0px||||false|false&#8221; global_colors_info=&#8221;{}&#8221;][et_pb_row column_structure=&#8221;1_2,1_2&#8243; _builder_version=&#8221;4.14.8&#8243; _module_preset=&#8221;default&#8221; width=&#8221;100%&#8221; locked=&#8221;off&#8221; global_colors_info=&#8221;{}&#8221;][et_pb_column type=&#8221;1_2&#8243; _builder_version=&#8221;4.14.8&#8243; _module_preset=&#8221;default&#8221; global_colors_info=&#8221;{}&#8221;][et_pb_text _builder_version=&#8221;4.14.8&#8243; _module_preset=&#8221;default&#8221; custom_margin_tablet=&#8221;&#8221; custom_margin_phone=&#8221;|||15px|false|false&#8221; custom_margin_last_edited=&#8221;on|phone&#8221; global_colors_info=&#8221;{}&#8221;]<\/p>\n<h3><span style=\"color: #333333;\">ABOUT THE HOST<\/span><\/h3>\n<p>[\/et_pb_text][et_pb_divider color=&#8221;#29cb8b&#8221; divider_weight=&#8221;3px&#8221; _builder_version=&#8221;3.2&#8243; max_width=&#8221;50px&#8221; locked=&#8221;off&#8221; global_colors_info=&#8221;{}&#8221;][\/et_pb_divider][et_pb_image src=&#8221;https:\/\/restroworks.com\/restrocast\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/10\/THE-HOST-ASHISH-TULSIAN.png&#8221; title_text=&#8221;THE-HOST-ASHISH-TULSIAN&#8221; _builder_version=&#8221;4.14.8&#8243; _module_preset=&#8221;default&#8221; global_colors_info=&#8221;{}&#8221;][\/et_pb_image][et_pb_text _builder_version=&#8221;4.14.8&#8243; _module_preset=&#8221;default&#8221; text_font_size=&#8221;18px&#8221; custom_margin_tablet=&#8221;&#8221; custom_margin_phone=&#8221;|||15px|false|false&#8221; custom_margin_last_edited=&#8221;on|phone&#8221; global_colors_info=&#8221;{}&#8221;]<\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Ashish is a serial entrepreneur and serves as the CEO &amp; <\/span><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Co- Founder of Restroworks.<\/span><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u00a0<\/span><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">He is one of the entrepreneurs who has mastered the art of bootstrapping startups to scale. Ashish is a prolific angel investor and mentors budding entrepreneurs and startups in Silicon Valley and India.<\/span><\/p>\n<p>[\/et_pb_text][\/et_pb_column][et_pb_column type=&#8221;1_2&#8243; _builder_version=&#8221;4.14.8&#8243; _module_preset=&#8221;default&#8221; global_colors_info=&#8221;{}&#8221;][et_pb_text _builder_version=&#8221;4.14.8&#8243; _module_preset=&#8221;default&#8221; custom_margin_tablet=&#8221;&#8221; custom_margin_phone=&#8221;|||15px|false|false&#8221; custom_margin_last_edited=&#8221;on|phone&#8221; locked=&#8221;off&#8221; global_colors_info=&#8221;{}&#8221;]<\/p>\n<h3><span style=\"color: #333333;\">ABOUT THE GUEST<\/span><\/h3>\n<p>[\/et_pb_text][et_pb_divider color=&#8221;#29cb8b&#8221; divider_weight=&#8221;3px&#8221; _builder_version=&#8221;3.2&#8243; max_width=&#8221;50px&#8221; locked=&#8221;off&#8221; global_colors_info=&#8221;{}&#8221;][\/et_pb_divider][et_pb_image src=&#8221;https:\/\/restroworks.com\/restrocast\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/10\/Website-Strip-bharat.png&#8221; alt=&#8221;David Bloom&#8221; title_text=&#8221;Website Strip-bharat&#8221; _builder_version=&#8221;4.14.8&#8243; _module_preset=&#8221;default&#8221; custom_padding=&#8221;||5px||false|false&#8221; locked=&#8221;off&#8221; global_colors_info=&#8221;{}&#8221;][\/et_pb_image][et_pb_text _builder_version=&#8221;4.14.8&#8243; _module_preset=&#8221;default&#8221; text_font_size=&#8221;18px&#8221; min_height=&#8221;105.6px&#8221; custom_margin_tablet=&#8221;&#8221; custom_margin_phone=&#8221;|15px||15px|false|true&#8221; custom_margin_last_edited=&#8221;on|phone&#8221; custom_padding=&#8221;0px|||||&#8221; locked=&#8221;off&#8221; global_colors_info=&#8221;{}&#8221;]<\/p>\n<p>Karl Goodhew, the forward-thinking CTO at BurgerFi, with 15+ years of software engineering experience, has revolutionized fast-casual dining. Formerly at Macy&#8217;s and other top companies, he excels in assembling diverse teams. Karl spearheads technology strategy and execution at BurgerFi, focusing on digital platforms, loyalty programs, and sustainability. His vision combines delectable, eco-friendly burgers with tech-driven efficiency and customer loyalty. Karl&#8217;s data-driven approach propels BurgerFi towards an innovative future, showcasing the power of embracing change and technology in the fast-casual dining sector.<\/p>\n<p>[\/et_pb_text][\/et_pb_column][\/et_pb_row][et_pb_row _builder_version=&#8221;4.14.8&#8243; width=&#8221;100%&#8221; max_width=&#8221;100%&#8221; custom_margin=&#8221;5%|||&#8221; custom_margin_tablet=&#8221;5%|||&#8221; custom_margin_phone=&#8221;18%||||false|false&#8221; custom_margin_last_edited=&#8221;on|phone&#8221; custom_padding=&#8221;0px|0px||0px|false|false&#8221; use_custom_width=&#8221;on&#8221; width_unit=&#8221;off&#8221; custom_width_percent=&#8221;100%&#8221; global_colors_info=&#8221;{}&#8221;][et_pb_column type=&#8221;4_4&#8243; _builder_version=&#8221;3.25&#8243; custom_padding=&#8221;|||&#8221; global_colors_info=&#8221;{}&#8221; custom_padding__hover=&#8221;|||&#8221;][et_pb_text _builder_version=&#8221;4.14.8&#8243; text_font=&#8221;Raleway|800|||||||&#8221; text_font_size=&#8221;21vw&#8221; 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custom_padding=&#8221;0px|0px|3px|0px|false|false&#8221; custom_padding_tablet=&#8221;||120px|&#8221; locked=&#8221;off&#8221; global_colors_info=&#8221;{}&#8221;][et_pb_row _builder_version=&#8221;4.14.8&#8243; _module_preset=&#8221;default&#8221; width_tablet=&#8221;&#8221; width_phone=&#8221;96%&#8221; width_last_edited=&#8221;on|phone&#8221; custom_padding=&#8221;0px|||||&#8221; link_option_url=&#8221;<\/p>\n<div id=%22buzzsprout-player-12521774%22><\/div>\n<p><script src=%22https:\/\/www.buzzsprout.com\/2042325\/12521774-rise-to-the-top-the-story-of-wow-bao-s-geoff-alexander.js?container_id=buzzsprout-player-12521774&#038;player=small%22 type=%22text\/javascript%22 charset=%22utf-8%22><\/script>&#8221; sticky_position=&#8221;top&#8221; global_colors_info=&#8221;{}&#8221;][et_pb_column type=&#8221;4_4&#8243; _builder_version=&#8221;4.14.8&#8243; _module_preset=&#8221;default&#8221; link_option_url=&#8221;<\/p>\n<div id=%22buzzsprout-player-12521774%22><\/div>\n<p><script src=%22https:\/\/www.buzzsprout.com\/2042325\/12521774-rise-to-the-top-the-story-of-wow-bao-s-geoff-alexander.js?container_id=buzzsprout-player-12521774&#038;player=small%22 type=%22text\/javascript%22 charset=%22utf-8%22><\/script>&#8221; global_colors_info=&#8221;{}&#8221;][et_pb_text _builder_version=&#8221;4.14.8&#8243; _module_preset=&#8221;default&#8221; sticky_position=&#8221;top&#8221; global_colors_info=&#8221;{}&#8221;]<\/p>\n<h1 id=\"audio\">Episode #9<\/h1>\n<p><script src=\"https:\/\/www.buzzsprout.com\/2042325\/12562882-from-tech-to-taste-karl-goodhew-s-inspiring-journey-of-innovation.js?container_id=buzzsprout-player-12562882&#038;player=small\" type=\"text\/javascript\" charset=\"utf-8\"><\/script>[\/et_pb_text][\/et_pb_column][\/et_pb_row][\/et_pb_section][et_pb_section fb_built=&#8221;1&#8243; custom_padding_last_edited=&#8221;off|desktop&#8221; admin_label=&#8221;Information Section&#8221; _builder_version=&#8221;4.14.8&#8243; max_width=&#8221;100%&#8221; module_alignment=&#8221;right&#8221; custom_padding=&#8221;14px|0px|54px|0px|false|false&#8221; custom_padding_tablet=&#8221;||120px|&#8221; locked=&#8221;off&#8221; global_colors_info=&#8221;{}&#8221;][et_pb_row _builder_version=&#8221;4.14.8&#8243; _module_preset=&#8221;default&#8221; width_tablet=&#8221;&#8221; width_phone=&#8221;96%&#8221; width_last_edited=&#8221;on|phone&#8221; custom_padding=&#8221;0px|||||&#8221; global_colors_info=&#8221;{}&#8221;][et_pb_column type=&#8221;4_4&#8243; _builder_version=&#8221;4.14.8&#8243; _module_preset=&#8221;default&#8221; global_colors_info=&#8221;{}&#8221;][et_pb_tabs active_tab_background_color=&#8221;#8300E9&#8243; inactive_tab_background_color=&#8221;#B3B3B3&#8243; active_tab_text_color=&#8221;#FFFFFF&#8221; _builder_version=&#8221;4.14.8&#8243; _module_preset=&#8221;default&#8221; tab_text_color=&#8221;#FFFFFF&#8221; tab_font=&#8221;Poppins||||||||&#8221; custom_margin=&#8221;0px||0px||true|false&#8221; custom_padding=&#8221;0px||0px||true|false&#8221; border_width_all=&#8221;0px&#8221; border_color_all=&#8221;#D6D6D6&#8243; border_style_all=&#8221;none&#8221; locked=&#8221;off&#8221; global_colors_info=&#8221;{}&#8221;][et_pb_tab title=&#8221;Description &#8221; _builder_version=&#8221;4.14.8&#8243; _module_preset=&#8221;default&#8221; body_text_color=&#8221;#6B6B6B&#8221; body_font_size=&#8221;18px&#8221; body_line_height=&#8221;1.8em&#8221; tab_font_size=&#8221;18px&#8221; tab_letter_spacing=&#8221;1px&#8221; tab_line_height=&#8221;2.3em&#8221; custom_padding=&#8221;40px||40px||true|false&#8221; global_colors_info=&#8221;{}&#8221;]<\/p>\n<p>Welcome to Restrocast by Ashish Tulsian, the podcast where we talk to the movers and shakers of the restaurant industry. In this episode, we are delighted to have Karl Goodhew, the Chief Technology Officer of BurgerFi, a fast-casual burger chain that is known for its fresh and natural ingredients, eco-friendly practices, and delicious menu.<\/p>\n<p>Karl Goodhew is a pioneer in the field of retail technology, having worked for companies like Macy\u2019s, Home Depot, and JCPenney. He is now leading the digital transformation of BurgerFi, using his tech expertise to enhance BurgerFi&#8217;s operations and customer experience. He is also responsible for developing BurgerFi&#8217;s innovative loyalty program, mobile app, and delivery platform.<\/p>\n<p>Join us as we chat with Karl about his exciting journey from retail to food and learn how he applies technology and innovation to BurgerFi&#8217;s business model. Here are some of the key takeaways from this episode:<\/p>\n<ul>\n<li>Karl&#8217;s passion for technology and how he started his career in retail tech.<\/li>\n<li>\u00a0His experience working for some of the biggest names in the industry and the challenges and opportunities he faced.<\/li>\n<li>His decision to join BurgerFi and his vision for the future of the fast-casual dining sector.<\/li>\n<li>How he leverages technology to improve BurgerFi&#8217;s efficiency and quality.<\/li>\n<li>How he engages with customers through BurgerFi&#8217;s loyalty program, mobile app, and delivery platform.<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<p>This episode is full of insights and stories from one of the most influential leaders in the restaurant industry. You don&#8217;t want to miss this one. Tune in to Restroworks and listen to Karl Goodhew&#8217;s amazing journey from retail tech leader to fast-casual dining visionary.<\/p>\n<p>If you prefer reading over listening, we have published the podcast transcription here! Go on and scroll away.<\/p>\n<p><b>Find us online:\u00a0<\/b><br \/>Ashish Tulsian &#8211;<span><a href=\"https:\/\/www.linkedin.com\/in\/ashishtulsian\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener nofollow noreferrer\"> <\/a><\/span><span><a href=\"https:\/\/www.linkedin.com\/in\/ashishtulsian\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener nofollow noreferrer\"><u>LinkedIn<\/u><\/a><\/span>\u00a0<br \/>Karl Goodhew-<span><a href=\"https:\/\/www.linkedin.com\/in\/karlgoodhew\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener nofollow noreferrer\"><u> LinkedIn<\/u><\/a><\/span><\/p>\n<p>[\/et_pb_tab][et_pb_tab title=&#8221;Transcript&#8221; _builder_version=&#8221;4.14.8&#8243; _module_preset=&#8221;default&#8221; body_font_size=&#8221;18px&#8221; tab_font_size=&#8221;18px&#8221; tab_letter_spacing=&#8221;1px&#8221; custom_padding=&#8221;40px||40px||true|false&#8221; global_colors_info=&#8221;{}&#8221;]<\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian:<\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> \u00a0 Hey, welcome to Restrocast. <\/span><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Today my guest is Karl Goodhew. He is a CTO at BurgerFi. Karl has had a great, rich experience between retail, hospitality and now restaurants, starting with Home Depot, Macy&#8217;s, JCPenney, working with hotel groups to now restaurants. I found Karl having that streak of self-taught engineer something that I can relate to because the problem solving skills that I saw and the perspective on restaurant tech was quite refreshing. I&#8217;m sure you&#8217;ll enjoy. So welcome to Restrocast. Thank you for doing this. Thank you for agreeing to do this.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Karl Goodhew:<\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Thanks for having me. Happy to be here.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian: <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">I would like to dive in straight into the journey much before restaurant tech. I can see that your career has been technology, technology, technology all along. And a lot of industries and a lot of, you know, product, services. It&#8217;s quite a wide range to cover. <\/span><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">But I would like to start with where it all started. How did you. Tell me about your early years. Where it all started?\u00a0\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Karl Goodhew:<\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> \u00a0 Yeah. So I went to the University of Georgia and I was actually a chemistry major for a few years. And I had a really bad semester where I actually made C\u2019s and that was not good for Karl. Karl doesn&#8217;t get C\u2019s And so I changed my major to management information systems which is not a it&#8217;s not a computer science, it&#8217;s a business major. And I started to teach myself how to code and ended up graduating right with the end of 2001, right after 9\/11. And all of my cohort basically had their jobs revoked, there they all their jobs with Accenture and or Andersen at the time. You know, they all got rescinded. <\/span><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">And I was fortunate enough to already have a job, landed with a niche consulting firm in Atlanta that made accounting software for utilities. That&#8217;s very sexy.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian:\u00a0 <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Oh, my God.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Karl Goodhew:\u00a0 <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">So I was coding and implementing against big ERP systems, very niche accounting software that calculates depreciation for utility poles, pipes and other equipment in the ground. And I started there traveling the country four days a week. A company called Power Plan, actually, they&#8217;re still around Power Plan, Power Plan, Power Plan and it was a lot of fun. And I learned the importance of understanding the problem before jumping right in. And also the client relationship.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian:\u00a0 <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">You were traveling the country as an engineer or as a product person?<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Karl Goodhew:<\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> \u00a0 As an engineer. So I was, you know, it&#8217;s a small. At the time there was I think I was employee number 25, and we would go out in groups of two or three and there would be a senior. And then myself.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian:\u00a0 <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">And it didn&#8217;t matter who you were, there were only a handful of people.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Karl Goodhew:\u00a0 <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">There was only. A handful of people. And everyone was working.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian:\u00a0 <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">And that&#8217;s why I love startups. I think, you know, at startups you get exposed to the entire spectrum of the problem and the solution and what happened just because you are there, because you know there&#8217;s nobody else.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Karl Goodhew:\u00a0 <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Exactly. And the problem is yours to solve. There is no one else to solve the problem. Yeah, absolutely. I completely agree. But I did realize that this was not what I wanted to do. Traveling three or four days a week and working on utility accounting software was not thrilling. And I ended up getting really lucky. The timing was perfect. I started to really get into iPhone development and Android development right as the app stores started.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian: <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">It was started in what year?<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Karl Goodhew:\u00a0 <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">2007 or 2008. And on the side as a side gig, I was building apps and got the attention of some folks and ended up at Home Depot building their their apps. It was actually their second version<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">of their app. I like to say that I built the original. That&#8217;s not true. It&#8217;s. It was the second version, but this was the better one. And oh, no, I got I got the I got the thrill of building out some features that still exist today. And I love that gut job. And, you know, hindsight&#8217;s 20\/20 when I left there, the stock was 27 bucks and it&#8217;s 300. But other than that, I mean, it was it was really a great job. And I still\u2026\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian: <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u00a0You did that as a side or\u2026\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Karl Goodhew: \u00a0 <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">No, No, that was full time.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian:\u00a0 <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">So the side gig landed you\u2026.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Karl Goodhew:\u00a0 <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">The side gig\u00a0 landed me to do that job because the person I was supposed to present my work wasn&#8217;t able to go and they asked me to go and present it. And then, you know, you make, you make connections. And so I, I was fortunate enough to end up being an architect at Home Depot and introduced a lot of the tech that they use today, like find find the product in the store and my favorite one was the was the augmented reality feature, which was in the commercials for quite a while actually. So you could hold up your phone and see a picture of the door or patio furniture or whatever it is. <\/span><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Yeah. And made a lot of good connections and those played out later that I eventually, you know, got phone calls from some folks who work there and moved around, ended up at J.C Penney, working for a gentleman named&#8230;<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian:\u00a0 <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">That\u2019s always great. You know, I must say, you know, I&#8217;m a big believer of compounding. I mean, life is compounding anyway.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Karl Goodhew:\u00a0 <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Yeah\u00a0 you&#8217;re right.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian: <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u00a0Well, everything is compounding and both are compounding good as well as bad. Right. So so one of the best things that happens when you&#8217;re when you really do good work wherever you are, at whatever level you are, is that you know, that reputation and that work compounds and people call you back.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Karl Goodhew:\u00a0 <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">No, they do. And, you know, you get to know good people. You understand who&#8217;s good people and who&#8217;s maybe avoid over time. And you just that&#8217;s not something you can teach. That&#8217;s something you learn. And I, I think Home Depot at that time, lots of good people probably still are lots of good people. But yeah.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian:<\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u00a0 So how long were you there?<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Karl Goodhew:\u00a0 <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Was there for Almost three years. Yeah. Right. Yeah. And I got a phone call and a lot of this is macroeconomics, you know, I got a phone call. Do you want to move to Miami and be in a startup? They should have just asked, Do you want to be on a beach? And, you know, and we bought our house in Atlanta in 2006, right before the bust. And so, yeah, it was about time that we could actually put up for rent. We would be okay. So my wife and I packed up and we moved to Miami. We went to I went to go to work for a startup. Yeah. Which was a big change.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian: <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u00a0And what was the startup about?<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Karl Goodhew: <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u00a0Yeah, the startup was called Yellow Pepper. And Yellow Pepper existed as a SMS banking service in Latin America, and they wanted to pivot, right? They&#8217;ve been very successful with some SMS banking, but they knew that that wasn&#8217;t going to last forever. And we need something app based. We need something to sell the banks that&#8217;s more than SMS, otherwise they&#8217;re going to go build it themselves or someone else will come and eat our lunch. So we ended up building a platform that uses the payment rails for Visa, MasterCard in Mexico, Ecuador, Colombia, Peru, and you can walk in and use a four digit rotating code on your on your app to pay right there four or five digits. <\/span><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">And so it&#8217;s time based. So basically you open up the app, you say, I want to make a payment. You punch that code in the payment device and your payments are taken. Right. This is fantastic for Latin America <\/span><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">because of the banking rules, right. Where the risk shifts and people aren&#8217;t willing to take the risk of using debit cards and you know credit card because the\u2026.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian: <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u00a0Even today.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Karl Goodhew: <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u00a0Yeah yeah yeah.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian: <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">It&#8217;s not it&#8217;s not that great even in 2023.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Karl Goodhew: <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Right right, So great team there. They ended up being acquired by Visa but I had left a few years prior.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian: <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Okay.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Karl Goodhew: <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u00a0Yeah. Still so yellow Pepper is now part of Visa. They still sell their solutions very solid.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian: <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">There they go like a payment POS.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Karl Goodhew:\u00a0 <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">They&#8217;re they&#8217;re a payment service And they sell to banks. So they&#8217;re, they&#8217;re on the back end. Right.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">But they also help the consumers facing apps with the with the banking software. Yeah. Yeah.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian: <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">All right.<\/span> <span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Got it. Okay. So that was that was the that was the closest you came to the P.O.S. or\u2026.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Karl Goodhew: <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Well, no, I ended up. I ended up working for Macy&#8217;s eventually. I&#8217;m working on POS software, but we&#8217;ll get there. There&#8217;s there&#8217;s a couple of steps between startup my my LinkedIn is pretty couple of years couple of years couple of years. I ended up being called by Mike Amend who was who&#8217;s now the one of the CTOs at Ford Motor Company. <\/span><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">He asked me if I would come to Dallas and work for JCPenney, and this was under Marvin Ellison. So after the whole disaster of Johnson, right. It was it was hey let&#8217;s go in, let&#8217;s try to save JCPenney. And we completely rebuilt the digital side of JC Penney, 100% rebuilt. <\/span><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">And I was fortunate enough to work on the mobile apps and loyalty side. And I mean, JCPenney threw everything at that to try and save themselves. It was it was a lot of fun. And I would say that&#8217;s probably the one time in my career where, you know, there was a mission and it was very clear mission and it was all about we got to save, we got to we got to do whatever we can to save this company. <\/span><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Well, it didn&#8217;t work out. Spoiler alert.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian:\u00a0 <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">At least we had the mission.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Karl Goodhew:\u00a0 <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Mm hmm. Yeah, but I take Mike Amend, good friend, and I see his passion and his motivation and his willingness to work is probably the best. I&#8217;ve ever seen in my career. Yeah, it&#8217;s a great guy. Try to get an interview with him. If you can. It&#8217;s uh Ford motor, but he&#8217;s been in retail. But why not. <\/span><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Yeah, so JCPenney didn&#8217;t quite. Didn&#8217;t quite make the cut and I ended up working for Macy&#8217;s. <\/span><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Another gentleman from Home Depot Naveen Krishna, who is now CTO at Napa Genuine Auto and he called me and asked me if I wanted to come to Macy&#8217;s. <\/span><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">And I went over there and I, I basically said, I&#8217;m not doing what I used to. I don&#8217;t want to do another mobile app gig. I&#8217;ve built mobile apps. I know I know how to do that upside down.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian:\u00a0 <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">No more retail.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Karl Goodhew:\u00a0 <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">No,no,no. I want to be in retail, but I don&#8217;t want to build mobile apps. <\/span><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">And so he said, Well, we&#8217;re doing this interesting project where we&#8217;re building a new format store ended up getting being called Market by Macy&#8217;s. So your average Macy&#8217;s store is 200,000 square feet. And so we&#8217;re built out this model. That&#8217;s 20,000 square feet. So 10%. And I worked with a very creative lady named Rachel Shipman out of New York. She had created Story which had been acquired by Macy&#8217;s. <\/span><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">And the goal here was Rachel lead a team to go build a new concept and let&#8217;s go do it. And we did. <\/span><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">And I got to do that this part time job. And then run four different teams of development teams.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian: <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Okay,<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Karl Goodhew: <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u00a0So I had POS and Mobile. Mobile.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian: <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">For this format.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Karl Goodhew: <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">No, no. For Macy&#8217;s. For Macy&#8217;s. For Macy&#8217;s Total, which includes Bloomingdales, <\/span><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">the Mobile POS. So I got to play with POS software, which includes curbside pickup and all that inventory systems for in-store, which includes RFID and asset protection, which is a very interesting topic and upon itself, self-checkout. So we built self-checkout at Macy&#8217;s. Not many folks know that that exists, but it&#8217;s it&#8217;s there. And then we just had general development. So for four different teams there.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian: <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Why were you building all this in-house I mean?\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Karl Goodhew: <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Well, that&#8217;s a great question. And Naveen left to go be a CTO elsewhere and I understand their direction changed and, you know the build versus buy is very secular and the pendulum shifted. So I believe they&#8217;re now buying more off the shelf than building it. But for me it was great because as a software engineer developer at heart, you know, building stuff is a is fun..It&#8217;s different than my role now.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian: <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">But I think I think for me why I ask you that question <\/span><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">specifically is because, you know, I, I&#8217;m biased, of course, but but then, you know, even back in the day, I do wonder for an outfit like Macy&#8217;s or or for for larger, you know, outfits. I think the process is a standard. Things are like scale is the problem. Speed accuracy is the problem, security is the problem. You&#8217;re not really too dynamic or you know agile when it comes to your processes or your structure. Built for for such structures, sounds like too much reinventing the wheel. I mean, for nothing.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Karl Goodhew: <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Oh, I mean, we had agile teams, we had really good software development, a great, great leadership in the software development space.I think there is a fundamental question there. Can you move quicker if you buy something off the shelf? But unless you&#8217;ve been in Macy&#8217;s or or home depot.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian: <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Is it only about moving quicker? But it\u2019s I mean, it\u2019s it\u2019s may it\u2019s may not be only about moving quicker. That&#8217;s true but then I believe that when you take a product off the shelf, the product is also growing. So so, you know, market movements, you&#8217;re running your own business, your business is retail, restaurant, hospitality or something, Right? That is going to be there are going to be trends and the shifts and the modules and the workflows and the features which you will lose sight of and one day you will need it and somebody helps us build it.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Karl Goodhew: <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Yeah, I think that&#8217;s one view. I I think the other view is that the business believes that their way of operating is unique and they have to do it their way. Otherwise it&#8217;s not what we want and we&#8217;re not going to be successful.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian: <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Yeah, but that&#8217;s a problem. No?\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Karl Goodhew: <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">That&#8217;s a problem with everywhere. That&#8217;s a problem everywhere. But we always had that conversation that Macy&#8217;s is is no more unique than Home Depot or JCPenney in that you&#8217;re selling <\/span><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">things off a shelf in a retail setting. There are definitely intricacies and there are definitely examples where you know that you are unique, but I would say that with the scale of Macy&#8217;s, with the scale of Home Depot, there are very few products that you can buy off the shelf and just plug in and go. However, I will say with cloud development and the ability to scale technically in terms of the number of servers and databases that has that has changed the game.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian:\u00a0 <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Sure, right.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Karl Goodhew:\u00a0 <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">But in the old days, you would as a startup say, I have this new product for Home <\/span><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Depot and\u2026That&#8217;s, you know, yeah, no, it&#8217;s never going work.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian: <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u00a0I think I think yeah I think and startups. I hear that absolutely I think I think startups also need a majority curve, because, you know, I can tell you at Restroworks back in 2012 when we started and you&#8217;re into it, you know, somebody asked me how so you can you can power Taco Bell, right? <\/span><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">So, yeah, sure. So, so why are they not using you?I said we don&#8217;t have time to sell to them. So you mean you can your product is going to solve them tomorrow? Absolutely. And, you know, cut to 2019. We signed our first Taco Bell. Yeah. And it took us six months to actually go live and I was like, oh, damn. Like after seven years, that is six months of work to be done before we go live in 2012. I legit believed that it&#8217;s Taco Bell&#8217;s mistake, that they&#8217;re not buying us. I am ready. Yeah, I think it&#8217;s startups. It&#8217;s also the scale pieces. You don&#8217;t know what you don&#8217;t know<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Karl Goodhew: \u00a0 <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u00a0Right? It&#8217;s right. And you have to you have to have been in those enterprises to understand how they work, how the sales process is, how the sales process is built in a way <\/span><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">to not to really gate those startups from coming in the door, even though there&#8217;s procurement teams, there&#8217;s analysis done on cost of cost of software. The CTOs already said, no I don&#8217;t want any more <\/span><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Vendors, everything is built as a mountain. Yeah, that is very hard to scale as a as a, as a startup trying to get a product into a major Fortune 500 company. It&#8217;s very hard\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian: \u00a0 \u00a0 <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">No, absolutely. And I and I, you know, I can only appreciate over my own journey that it&#8217;s hard for a reason. There are stakes. And this is something that I normally, you know, have been telling ourselves as a company, but I&#8217;ve been<\/span> <span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">preaching to a lot of fellow entrepreneurs who are at different stages, right. Where, you know, like, you know what? Don&#8217;t curse that CIO or CTO and the guy, you know, there are stakes and you know, he is looking at you with suspicion. Have you looked at yourself? I look at you with suspicion. I look at myself with suspicion. It&#8217;s Okay. Right. Instead of, you know, pushing that back, embrace it. All right You know, hear the person out there are stakes. Stakes are real. Nobody got fired to buy an IBM. It&#8217;s a real thing. It&#8217;s fair. It&#8217;s it&#8217;s it&#8217;s not unfair. You want your your just shot, right. But you need to embrace the fact that there are stakes and you need to answer those questions where before if somebody is asking those questions too late.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Karl Goodhew:\u00a0 \u00a0 <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Yeah. No, absolutely. And the other thing too, is you&#8217;ve got to make sure you&#8217;re priced correctly if you come in too cheap. No one believes that you&#8217;re\u2026..<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian: \u00a0 <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u00a0Oh, yeah. Of course, hundred percent.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Karl Goodhew:\u00a0 \u00a0 <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u00a0If you&#8217;re too expensive, you&#8217;re not getting in the door. You have to be at that sweet spot and leave room for knowing that procurement is going to beat you up<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian:\u00a0 \u00a0 <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">.I think it&#8217;s funny you said that, right? Because. Because with startups, you know,the oversimplification of this problem being cheap. Yes. It&#8217;s like, oh you know, you&#8217;re paying Oracle, X, Y, Z. I&#8217;ll do that at 1\/10 the cost, like, why and how will you do it at 1\/10 the cost why will somebody buy you at 1\/10 of the cost.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Karl Goodhew: \u00a0 \u00a0 <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Yeah. And also to rip out Oracle and put in a startup,there&#8217;s costs associated with that part of it. So maybe don&#8217;t go after Oracle or maybe do.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian: <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u00a0Maybe do. But I think I think taking care of these nuances is one of them.I think I think that there are those startups that are disrupting, you know, Oracles in the Cisco&#8217;s all of the time, but definitely every time. But they do it and you see a lot of, you know, maturity in the system. You know, they&#8217;re maybe new age, but they&#8217;re not new,\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Karl Goodhew: \u00a0 \u00a0 <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Correct. Yes. Yes. And invariably they grow and then they become another oracle or Salesforce or.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian: <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Oh, that&#8217;s a that&#8217;s a rite of passage. That&#8217;s exactly what they want to be.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Karl Goodhew: <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u00a0I know,<\/span> <span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">I know they want to be that guerilla who can&#8217;t be displaced.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian: <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u00a0They&#8217;re like, absolutely. They&#8217;re like, please make me something that people curse.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">These guys don&#8217;t move. Yeah. But you know what? What? After Macy&#8217;s.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Karl Goodhew: \u00a0 <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Yeah. So we opened that store in Southlake, Texas. I think it was like March 7th on March 10th, 2020. And then all hell broke loose\u2026.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian: <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u00a02 Minutes of silence.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Karl Goodhew:\u00a0 <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Yes. Yes. So I ended up staying there for a little while longer, working on those other systems. And it was it was a lot of fun, but I had already done a lot of that work and I wanted to do something different. And the one of the gentleman from Yellow Pepper on the on the really the the SPAC side. <\/span><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">So of Burger Fi, Burger Fi\u00a0 was a SPAC that acquired a private company, BurgerFi. And he called me <\/span><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">and asked me if I wanted to do more high level CTO work.<\/span><b>\u00a0 <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">And so I was like, Yeah, this sounds good. <\/span><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">So I&#8217;m I live in Atlanta. The company&#8217;s based out of Fort Lauderdale and I&#8217;m CTO of Burger Fi and Anthony&#8217;s Co Fire Pizza, who we acquired on November 21.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian: <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u00a0\u00a0Oh, okay. Yeah.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Karl Goodhew:\u00a0 \u00a0 <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">So we have 120 BurgerFi and 60 pizza pizza joints casual.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian: \u00a0 <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Yeah. Great. Before I jump into the, you know, the darker side of the restaurant business in your research, I saw that, you know, you ran a tech services company for a while.<\/span><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Was that like something that you ran <\/span><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">separately or over<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Karl Goodhew: \u00a0 <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u00a0My own thing? Yeah. No, that was I was on the side gig. It was really building <\/span><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">software, whatever I could find. I built some software for managing dental x-rays. I built software for <\/span><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">measuring the distance between I don&#8217;t even remember what it was, but in a lab bacteria or something on a slide.<\/span><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"><br \/><\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian:\u00a0 <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Why were you doing all this?<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Karl Goodhew:\u00a0 <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">I Because it was opportunistic and I, it was something to do and, you know, broaden my scope of, of work and, you know, pay some bills.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian: <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">That was happening on the side while you were going. Ahead.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Karl Goodhew:\u00a0 <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Yeah,I haven&#8217;t done that in a while. Yeah. So I was, you know, it was very <\/span><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">opportunistic as it came across.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian: <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u00a0And you. You code I&#8217;m assuming.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Karl Goodhew:\u00a0 \u00a0 <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">I code self-taught. So a lot of people look at my code and laugh, but it generally works. I&#8217;ve run coding teams, which has helped me a lot in understanding what good code looks like <\/span><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">and then me understanding that I&#8217;m better at helping project manage and making sure we hit schedules. <\/span><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Then then me coding, that&#8217;s it&#8217;s not good for anyone anymore. <\/span><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">But no, Java is probably my number one language that I code in now. But I, I do a lot of, you know, what I call hacky scrappy stuff. Oh, we need to know. We need to know competitive pricing. Right. Okay. I&#8217;ll build a quick scraping tool and put it in the cloud and away we go.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian: \u00a0 <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">That&#8217;s interesting. So, you know, I saw hospitality in between as well.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Karl Goodhew:<\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u00a0 \u00a0 I was very briefly at a hotel company called Omni Hotels about six months. <\/span><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Yeah, we did a little bit of work on building new website for them and but I didn&#8217;t stay long. Not that there\u2019s anything wrong with Omni. It was just, you know, it wasn&#8217;t for me.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian: \u00a0 <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Too slow or? I find hotels too slow I have to say. Well I manage the hotel, my family had a hotel.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Karl Goodhew:<\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u00a0 Okay. So I think the problem with Omni Hotels and I, I think it&#8217;s a great company, <\/span><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">but you&#8217;ve got to look at the ownership. He made all of his money in oil and real estate. Digital wasn&#8217;t really top of mind so it was an uphill battle from the beginning.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian:\u00a0 <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Um, tech was just a utility or.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Karl Goodhew:<\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> \u00a0 Well, if someone wants to stay at an Omni hotel, they&#8217;ll just come to the website <\/span><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">and book it. Got it. Why do you need to? Why do you need anything else?<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian:\u00a0 <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Yeah, no, I think, I think hotels are slow because I think one of the biggest reasons <\/span><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">why hotel are slow is because that like their opportunity or the problems lie in this one building. Yeah right. So you like not a lot can go wrong with it you know they&#8217;re you&#8217;re always contained. I mean, of course there is a there&#8217;s a scope of innovation everywhere. Right. But I find hotels as a problem So contained in that you know building in that in that one property one at a time that hotels moves slow that&#8217;s that&#8217;s been my.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Karl Goodhew: \u00a0 <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">I do draw a lot of similarities between hotels and restaurants though the inventory expires at the end of the day.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian: \u00a0 <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">I&#8217;m not much in hotels I mean even even in hotels, inventory expires in the restaurant.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Karl Goodhew:\u00a0 <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">That&#8217;s what I mean. <\/span><b>\u00a0<\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Right So, yeah, it&#8217;s very similar in that you&#8217;ve got to manage that inventory. You&#8217;ve got to work out the right pricing to get the right number of people in the door and there&#8217;s a lot of the same problems.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian: \u00a0 <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Yeah, I mean, I still believe that, you know, hotel is like the for the restaurant as well <\/span><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">audience as captive you have a you have a certain percentage of people you know that if you know 100 people have checked in 30 are going to eat here anyway anyway you know so hotels are like I find them like much more chill. Restaurants are always on fire. They&#8217;re they&#8217;re like every day is a new day, literally.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Karl Goodhew:<\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> \u00a0 I think that&#8217;s fair. I think that&#8217;s very fair. Yeah. Although I still come back to hotels, <\/span><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">at least when I was there, the pricing mechanisms were very outdated.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian: <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">I think. Yeah. I mean, for the hotel rooms. Yes. Hotel industry also uses competitive intelligence on pricing a lot. I don&#8217;t know how you know how tech forward that is, but they you know, industry has figured<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Karl Goodhew: <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u00a0\u00a0It&#8217;s yeah. It&#8217;s self-fulfilling, right? It&#8217;s right. Oh, they&#8217;re at 200. We got to be at 200. Oh, they&#8217;re at 200. We got to be at 200.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian:\u00a0 <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">That&#8217;s a that&#8217;s a very guesswork.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Karl Goodhew: \u00a0 <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Right. Right, exactly. Exactly.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian:\u00a0 <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Yeah so BurgerFi. But what&#8217;s been what&#8217;s how&#8217;s the restaurant industry treating you?<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Karl Goodhew: \u00a0 <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Well, personally, they&#8217;ve welcomed me, which is nice because I didn&#8217;t get I haven&#8217;t been stepped in the back yet, so I actually like it. I think it&#8217;s a\u2026I don&#8217;t have to wear a bulletproof vest <\/span><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">anywhere or anything like that. So, no, I think that the restaurant industry is very welcoming to outsiders. <\/span><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">I thought it might be a little bit like, Oh, you didn&#8217;t come up from the operations side like, Oh, we don&#8217;t trust you. And it hasn&#8217;t been like that at all. They&#8217;re very receptive to new ideas. And I&#8217;m speaking generally but I found that everyone\u00a0 that I&#8217;ve worked with or spoken with, they they are welcoming of new ideas and maybe we should look at it a little different way.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian: \u00a0 <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">That&#8217;s also the timing. No, you came in post COVID, I think. Technology was already at the forefront.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Karl Goodhew: <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0Yes, that&#8217;s correct. In that off premise, all online ordering had already happened. But <\/span><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">yeah, so there is a dynamic shift that I wasn&#8217;t there for. I completely agree. But I, I think in my mind I had ooh a chef\u2019s going to want to do it this way or you know, an operator is going to say it&#8217;s I&#8217;ve always I&#8217;ve done it this way for 30 years because that&#8217;s how retail is a lot of the time. <\/span><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Yeah. And you know it that that didn&#8217;t happen. So I guess everyone became more used to technology and receptive and understanding that we&#8217;ve got to we&#8217;ve got to change.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian:\u00a0 <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">So how the how the how did the BurgerFi started like you know what did you? What did you see there or was it all perfect when you entered?<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Karl Goodhew: <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0Yeah, everything was perfect. Nothing, No changes needed at all. So that was fantastic.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian: \u00a0 <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">I thought so, Yeah.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Karl Goodhew: <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u00a0\u00a0No, absolutely So. BurgerFi was a family run company for about 11 years. And I mean, no disrespect to the folk who were there prior, I think that they were making the best decision for them at that time. And I can&#8217;t put on their glasses and understand what they were seeing. But a lot of the decisions made were just that. What do we need to do right now? Which means that, you know, when I came in, we had four different POS We. We didn&#8217;t really have a.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian: \u00a0 <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">How large was the estate? How many stores?<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Karl Goodhew: <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0See? So we&#8217;re now at 120 stores.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian: \u00a0 <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">When you entered.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Karl Goodhew: <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u00a0\u00a0When we entered, it was about the same size, a little bit smaller. Not. Yeah, but we&#8217;ve opened a lot of corporate since I joined. I think we&#8217;ve opened a lot of corporate stores around 12 corporate stores and then the franchised side is where we&#8217;re focused on growth right now.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian: <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">So four different POS systems.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Karl Goodhew:\u00a0 <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u00a0Four different POS systems, which makes data collection a challenge, we were able to get rid of one completely and then we used an aggregation tool Miros for BI tool, which then feeds through to our GL ERP, everything else. So a lot of the systems were built for a mom, not mom and pop, <\/span><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">but a family run company, right? So we now have a ERP that finance can use, automated invoice, <\/span><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">scanning a lot of things that really help the business run. It took a while to get there. A lot of the menus have been redone. You know, I was there during the massive supply chain issues, right where everything went through the roof. So that was a lot of, I wouldn\u2019t say, fun. From a from a technology perspective, it meant that we had to understand what our what our competitors are doing, what is, what are our costs. We we didn&#8217;t have visibility to that. And that meant we had to move quickly and make those changes in pricing which which we&#8217;ve seen, you know, big, big increases in pricing over the last two years, as I think.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian:\u00a0 <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Still going on?<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Karl Goodhew: \u00a0 <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">We revisit it very frequently. I think we&#8217;re moving towards more dynamic pricing, more store level pricing based off of competitors nearby, not broad sweeping increases.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian:\u00a0 <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Mm hmm. When you say dynamic pricing, you mean dynamic through the day or both?<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Karl Goodhew:<\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> \u00a0 Oh. Both that and dynamically for that store. Fairly frequently, right? Not necessarily during the day. We don&#8217;t have a breakfast, but at our airport locations and lunch and dinner is same venue. So we, we drive lunch through promotions, loyalty versus different pricing structure.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian:\u00a0 <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Mm hmm. Yeah. So I&#8217;m assuming that now it&#8217;s one POS system, too, are you?<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Karl Goodhew: <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u00a0\u00a0We&#8217;re not quite there. We&#8217;re not quite there. It is still a journey. It&#8217;s very, you know, it&#8217;s capital intensive to rip out a POS. And then when we acquired Anthony&#8217;s there on a completely different POS. So, you know, that&#8217;s, that&#8217;s something that we evaluate, I think with my background being in payments payments, some POS are now, you know, often people get confused because they&#8217;re so intertwined. And I think that&#8217;s the opportunity that we&#8217;re looking for. How do we maximize our commodity, which is the payment space to make sure that our POS is the right POS.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian:\u00a0 <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Can you give them that?<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Karl Goodhew:\u00a0 <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Yeah. So to me, payments are commodities, right? As long, you have to be up, you have to take payment, you have to take Apple Pay, you have to take EMV, you check those boxes. Okay, what&#8217;s your value add? You can pay a table, you can scan QR and pay. All right. Most everyone&#8217;s got that now. So payments to me, as long as you&#8217;re up and you&#8217;ve got a track record of being up, the cost is the cost. The cost is the driving factor at that point. So then the question is, can you get your payments to pay for your POS hardware?\u00a0 And can you do it in such a way that you&#8217;re not locked in? And if you can solve both of those things now you&#8217;ve got the flexibility and the cost.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian: \u00a0<\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">And you know, I, you know, that&#8217;s, that&#8217;s a, that&#8217;s a brilliant point because I believe that for whatever good reasons or past couple decades, POS software companies that I&#8217;m talking about, <\/span><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">like the restaurant POS that is supposed to solve so much in the workflow and menu and whatnot, <\/span><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">they are aligning with the payment system, locking, you know, companies payments has actually t<\/span><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">heir incentive to go in the deeper, darker corners of that workflow. Right? Because your cash till is operating, they are continuously bringing in It doesn&#8217;t matter whether they got that one workflow in or not. <\/span><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">It doesn&#8217;t matter whether that menu was feasible or was versatile or rich. You know, for a marketplace.\u00a0<\/span><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">So I think the payments and the software POS systems are supposed to be two different problems. They cannot be one,they need to work together.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Karl Goodhew:<\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> \u00a0 I completely agree. Unfortunately, the industry is consolidated around this verticalization of the POS and payments space, which then results. Like you said, you&#8217;ve got to look at the feature set of a particular POS and you better bet on it because you&#8217;re locked in for some amount of time that you can&#8217;t make changes.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian: <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">I mean, you&#8217;re locked in even without a contract. I personally feel that, you know, especially like, you know, any, any restaurant chain of a certain minimum size is locked in anyway. <\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Karl Goodhew: <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Yeah, there&#8217;s capital expenditure.There&#8217;s I mean, there&#8217;s effort, there&#8217;s interfaces, there&#8217;s integrations. So you&#8217;re already locked in.<\/span><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"><br \/><\/span><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"><br \/><\/span><b>Ashish Tulsian: <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u00a0I don&#8217;t need a contract for that. I mean, I can tell you that, you know, some of my customers cannot go out even if I screw twice just because, you know, they&#8217;re locked in, because there&#8217;s so much there. The stakes are high. There&#8217;s so much that has gone in. So I think payments is probably the lowest, you know, denominator.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Karl Goodhew: <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u00a0\u00a0Yep. In that I agree 100%. And what it does is if you&#8217;re locked in on the payments side <\/span><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Now, it makes it difficult to pick a third party kiosk, drive through menu boards. Right now you&#8217;re really limited in your ability to innovate in this space. So I don&#8217;t like being vertically locked in. I know, I know. <\/span><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Some folks are probably listening to this who are vendors today going, Uh Oh, but I think that it&#8217;s in the best it&#8217;s in the best interest of the restaurant company to to maintain separate.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian:\u00a0 <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">I think I can tell you that, you know, I am, you know, we are a POS. We started as a POS company actually. But all my biases aside, the fact is that I was a restaurateur 12 years back. Mm. This product was earlier built for my restaurant. Yep. We currently operate in 55 countries. <\/span><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Right From that vantage point we see the impact of where payments are aligned with the POS and geographies where payments are not aligned with the POS. Right. We for me, I think I&#8217;m really vocal about it, but with our competitors as well, that guys, you know, you can compete on 20,000 <\/span><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">other things like the payment fees. My, my point in the payment is that your incentive is misplaced. You locking somebody down on the hardware on the payment on the contract, you&#8217;re making money on that transaction in a percentage, you know, it&#8217;s a no go because that takes away the incentive from a software company to really solve what deep dark problem. You don&#8217;t need that. And that is exactly why <\/span><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">I feel that restaurant tech in general is super fragmented. It&#8217;s broken not because products are bad <\/span><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">or individual products, which solve the problems nicely. Beautiful products, multiple of them, but they&#8217;re broken. Like the entire spectrum is so fragmented that you are trying to, you know, buy like 12 or 13 products and then try to make them talk to each other seamlessly. <\/span><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">And then you&#8217;re complaining that they don&#8217;t talk to each other. Of course they don&#8217;t. Right. What&#8217;s <\/span><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">what&#8217;s been your experience with that?<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Karl Goodhew:<\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> \u00a0 I completely agree. And I also I have to take a step back and say I only had a US centric view of technology. I understand there&#8217;s issues like fiscal in foreign countries where for those who don&#8217;t know, you have to, by government rule, maintain a log of every transaction in a.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian: <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">And every country has a different one.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Karl Goodhew:<\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u00a0 Everyone has a different one. And it has to be immutable or not immutable, and it has to abide by all these different rules and regulations. And you&#8217;ve got 55 countries, you probably got 54 different rules.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian: <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u00a0Oh. Don&#8217;t ask. I mean, we have seen we have seen such bizarre fiscal integrations. Yep. Where we you know, we asked the guy that. All right, so, you know, how does that work? And when he explained we were like, what, why? And and it wasn&#8217;t even about how how how are we going to do that? We were like, who designed the system? Like, what is your government?<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Karl Goodhew:\u00a0 <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u00a0A bunch of legislators.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian:\u00a0 <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">I mean, you see Mexico, right? They have a stamping. Every time you hit print check, an API call hits a government server. There is an invoice ID generated on the fly. It comes back. It needs to be stamped on that bill. And that&#8217;s when you print the bill. They were like, What? That stuff.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Karl Goodhew: <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u00a0There&#8217;s no latency there.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian: <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u00a0Yeah, I mean, problems are umpteen, you know, turkey, they have locked the payment terminals. So if you are, if you are using a verifone machine or ingenico machine or, you know, that needs to be integrated with the government. So because of taxation, they need to get the, you know, the number of the tax. Thailand government has issued every business a certain series of invoice numbers. Oh, right. And your invoices have to be with that suffix, that prefix and that series. And I can.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Karl Goodhew:\u00a0 <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u00a0Yeah. That&#8217;s, yeah, I think that Yeah, that&#8217;s not my worldview. I&#8217;m very US centric, <\/span><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">which is great from that. I don&#8217;t have to worry about that. But I do agree with you. It&#8217;s very fragmented. <\/span><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">There&#8217;s a million solutions out there, but I don&#8217;t think that&#8217;s necessarily unique to the restaurant space. There&#8217;s a million solutions in retail. There&#8217;s a million solutions in any industry. It&#8217;s just that here it seems that there are some big players that are consolidating and becoming a little monopolistic. I hate to say that out loud. In some areas, and that drowns out a lot of the innovation and the smaller players.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian:\u00a0 \u00a0 <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">I think if I if I take like take a step back from when I said fragmented, I, you know, even in the US, I actually mean that it&#8217;s a single problem statement and it has been chopped into 12 <\/span><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">hyper specialized pieces. And some of those problems are in fact most of those problems are so intertwined. Right. That while the specialized solution in isolation looks brilliant. Right. But it&#8217;s not operating in isolation.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Karl Goodhew: \u00a0 <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Well, yes, But then you look at companies like Uber, Amazon, Google, they can&#8217;t solve for every iteration or every scenario inside the restaurant space. Like Uber doesn&#8217;t have a great pizza builder. Right? Yeah. And they&#8217;ve got cash to throw at it all day. Right? Amazon is trying to understand the restaurant space and they don&#8217;t don&#8217;t you know it&#8217;s Yeah.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian:<\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u00a0 They won&#8217;t get it. I hate to say that right. I don&#8217;t think I don&#8217;t think they&#8217;ll get it. I&#8217;m<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Karl Goodhew:\u00a0 <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u00a0There&#8217;s a lot of smart people at Amazon.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian:\u00a0 <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u00a0It doesn&#8217;t matter. I think I think if I truly think that Google is a great company and if a great company like Google can do Google Plus, I don&#8217;t think the problem is smartness. You know, they suck at social. Google&#8217;s APIs suck like like, for example, Google. All Google understands is the collect <\/span><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">data process and give it back to you. If you<\/span> <span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">if if Google had to accept data from you like a two way <\/span><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">their APIs suck like all over.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Karl Goodhew: \u00a0 <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">I think that&#8217;s a little shortsighted. I&#8217;m sorry. So I know a lot of I know a lot of Google engineers, too. They&#8217;re they&#8217;re very smart. To your point, being smart doesn&#8217;t mean making good decisions.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian:<\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> \u00a0 No, I&#8217;m talking about the systems.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Karl Goodhew:\u00a0 <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">The system capabilities that they have, though, are pretty significant. They&#8217;re building out a retailer.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian:<\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> \u00a0 Don&#8217;t get me wrong. I think, I think that the probably might have come across as wrong. I mean, that companies have dominated and Apple doesn&#8217;t fall far away from the tree. Yeah so so <\/span><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">I&#8217;m talking about the organizational DNA and I&#8217;m not not ownership smartness of the people. Inside right. So what I&#8217;m saying is that super smart people at Amazon are going to make crazy strides and they will work in retail in that area, in e-commerce and marketplaces, and they do that all the time. They did AWS <\/span><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">I mean, that&#8217;s that&#8217;s an adjacent. You know, in a world I mean that&#8217;s a tangential word, not even not adjacent and what I mean is that that organizations who have a certain DNA, they you know, Uber, uber eats failed at so many places in the world while they actually disrupted logistics for real, they actually disrupted, you know, cabs.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Karl Goodhew: <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u00a0I agree. I just look at it this way. So Amazon has a very customer centric view of the world. How do we solve a customer problem? And that customer might be the business right? Whereas I think that Google takes more of a business centric view of the world and how do we solve a business problem that may not always be in the best interest of the customer? This is my view of the world. <\/span><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">For what it&#8217;s worth.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian: <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u00a0\u00a0Interesting. No, but I think I think for me the fragmentation is also about that. You know, when a company is not so, for example, a lot of POS companies suck a lot of back of the house <\/span><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">companies. You know, we&#8217;re not able to do, you know, a lot of other things in that equation. Right You know be be labor management are not hard to find the acquired and I meant the DNA from that.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Karl Goodhew:\u00a0 <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">And I completely agree with that. And I think you have to decide upfront are you going to do a best in breed, which means you have to have a fragmented tech stack of best inventory system, best labor scheduling system, best POS. Or are you going to accept that it&#8217;s not going to be fantastic? <\/span><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">across the board and pick one of those solutions. that claims to be able to do everything, understanding it&#8217;s not going to quite be able to do everything in every area. That&#8217;s the decision you got to make and how complicated it is, the cost, the budget that you have. Do you want to focus on operations and selling food or do you want to focus on systems? I think that there&#8217;s<\/span> <span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">a lot of questions in there that are very complex and it&#8217;s more about the business structure. And do you have the time and money, resources, effort, willingness to go down that path? Yeah, but I do agree it is fragmented in the in the systems world and we choose to do best in class where possible or if we&#8217;re budget constrained, what&#8217;s the best that we can get for that budget. Hmm. Right. And yes, it results in a very fragmented tech stack, <\/span><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">but we consolidate across brands wherever possible.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian: <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u00a0\u00a0On the new age tech. We are also talking about start-up Alley at MURTEC. And the new edge tech, there&#8217;s a lot of AI that is flying around. Yeah. VoiceAI You know, one of my favorites also because I like my biases. I believe that visual interfaces will go lesser than lesser in the world in general, not only in restaurants. Yeah, sure, Sure. You know Voice is easier, right? You. I read that you guys are, you know, doing something on voice ordering, Voice AI.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Karl Goodhew: \u00a0 <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">So all, all 60 of our pizza restaurants Anthony&#8217;s that you&#8217;re greeted by a voice A.I. <\/span><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">when you place your order and the majority of phone orders do get placed through that A.I. System.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian: <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u00a0\u00a0So. So, you know, what&#8217;s what&#8217;s been, what&#8217;s your current experience with voice? The AI and I&#8217;m talking about challenges and opportunity, accuracy.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Karl Goodhew:\u00a0 <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u00a0Yep. So we partner with Converse now and they&#8217;re fantastic partners in that we work with them on challenges. and there have been plenty. Usually around the way that people say things or different terms for what we call one thing. So pepperoni, right? I call it pepperoni. Someone else may call them pepperoni cups or, you know, salami or like it&#8217;s not quite what what you expect. And you don&#8217;t know that until you listen to thousands of calls. So they go through that training procedure and they train the model. And that solves a lot of that. That the issue then is accents, Spanish speaking is a bit of a problem. And so we we backup, which is a human right. Human ends up taking the call if someone we have keywords we listen to for frustration and we immediately transfer the call.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian: <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u00a0So so what&#8217;s happening? What&#8217;s the accuracy?<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Karl Goodhew:\u00a0 <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">It&#8217;s the accuracy is great. When when the system is able to understand and understand you, there&#8217;s no accent issues or anything like that. I would say that, you know, there <\/span><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">there are a good percentage of the population that still struggle with it and we&#8217;re working through that <\/span><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">and that&#8217;ll that&#8217;ll come over time.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian: <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u00a0But is it is it when you said accents and you&#8217;re talking about <\/span><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">like people characterizing a certain thing or naming it differently.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Karl Goodhew: \u00a0 <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">There&#8217;s another segment of the population and that&#8217;s those that don&#8217;t want to talk to a robot. They just. Okay, human representative<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian: <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u00a0What what are those calls like?\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Karl Goodhew: \u00a0 <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Oh, no. The problem with those calls is that they&#8217;ve worked out the customer has worked out how to get through to a human right away. Okay. So they bypass the system. And that&#8217;s something that we have to make a business decision on, Right. Because, yeah, the benefit for us is I don&#8217;t I don&#8217;t want to beat up customers. Right. But if the customer uses the phone A.I. to order or better yet, through our website, they are placing an order that we know will be made. We know we receive the order correctly so right. If they get through to a person, that person is now not able to offer customer service and hospitality to someone that is in the store. So that&#8217;s taking away from another customer customer&#8217;s experience. And I want to divert those hours of hospitality to real interaction at the table or at pickup so that you come back a second or third time, not during an order taking process. There&#8217;s not much business value out there.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian: <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u00a0\u00a0But is the is the accent problem or the of the data and training model, etc. is a geography based. For example, you know, let&#8217;s just southern you know, if you if your stores are concentrated over that and I&#8217;m assuming that because it&#8217;s 120 stores.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Karl Goodhew:\u00a0 \u00a0 <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">We&#8217;re majority Florida, half Florida and then scattered East Coast <\/span><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">all the way, Denver, Alaska. Right.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian:\u00a0 <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u00a0Okay. So you&#8217;re yeah, dealing with quite a Spread,<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Karl Goodhew:\u00a0 <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u00a0quite a spread. But I would say that South Florida in particular is a little bit of a challenge with Hispanic population. Right. But you&#8217;re. Well. We&#8217;re going to work through that, right? <\/span><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">If we had unlimited resources, we would do a Spanish model instead.<\/span><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"><br \/><\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian:\u00a0 <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u00a0Isn&#8217;t it there yet?\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Karl Goodhew:\u00a0 <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u00a0No. We for Spanish, we take them through to a Spanish speaking colleague. Yeah, yeah,<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian:\u00a0 <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u00a0I, I think that voice AI, you know, is something that I sincerely hope that it&#8217;s going to improve for everyone over time. It&#8217;s not only really about like, one player, I think. Yeah. The kind of collective.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Karl Goodhew:\u00a0 <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u00a0Yeah. And as a customer I, I feel like there&#8217;s some companies that abuse abuse it so I&#8217;m going to call it AT&amp;T. They you know they will make it impossible to get through to someone. Mm. I think that in the restaurant space in particular hospitality that shouldn&#8217;t be the goal.The goal should be if we can help you right now, we will help you if you need assistance, will gladly get you that. It shouldn&#8217;t be a, it shouldn&#8217;t be a maze, it shouldn&#8217;t be a challenge to get through to someone. But at the same time we would like you to try it and see if you can get through the process. It&#8217;s really a great process. We just want you to try it just once.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian: <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0What are the fads in technology? What are the things that you, the like the CTO cringes when you when you hear that, it&#8217;s like, oh, come on, don&#8217;t don&#8217;t talk this. I&#8217;m tired.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Karl Goodhew:\u00a0 \u00a0 <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">So we tested robots on in one of our stores and there were three robots in the <\/span><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">on the floor yesterday and all I heard were people complaining why is it why is it here? Why is it keep moving into my booth? Well, why is it here? I think that robots. They&#8217;ve got a long way to come. <\/span><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">I think that back at house, robots make perfect sense. I think front of house robots need to come down <\/span><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">significantly in price and add more features.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian:\u00a0 <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">You mean back on the house robots. Like cooking, cooking. Automated fryers.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Karl Goodhew: \u00a0 \u00a0 <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Automatic fryers, automatic for burger flippers, pizza makers, things like that. We&#8217;re not there yet. And the reason for that is a lot of these automated processes require frozen foods because it&#8217;s consistent and we don&#8217;t have that. Yeah. Mm hmm. All of our food is fresh in the pizza side. And then on the burger side, all of our meat is, you know, it&#8217;s not frozen meat.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian:<\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u00a0 \u00a0 What do you what did you use robots for?<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Karl Goodhew:\u00a0 \u00a0 <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">We use robots in the front of the house for delivering food. To table. To the table.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian:<\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> And how did it go?\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Karl Goodhew: \u00a0 <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">It was fine. I mean, it worked. But when you do the math and play it out, math doesn&#8217;t make sense. You know, it&#8217;s pretty expensive. And then the ROI, you can&#8217;t remove labor from the store.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian: \u00a0 <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Correct.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Karl Goodhew: \u00a0 <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">So it&#8217;s not it&#8217;s diverting labor a little bit, but it&#8217;s not resulting in enough to offset the significant cost. And then also there are some technical challenges, especially in Florida, a lot of sunlight, <\/span><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">and that messed with the camera system and oh, shadows and things like that. It it started to detect, <\/span><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Oh, there&#8217;s something there. No, it&#8217;s just sunny. Right. So that I think those kind of challenges.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian:\u00a0 <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u00a0Yeah I think it&#8217;s just an evolution problem.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Karl Goodhew: \u00a0 <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Yeah. Yeah. And they&#8217;ll get through that. They&#8217;ll get through that. But you know, the staff liked, it was the kids who loved it. I think it&#8217;s a good it&#8217;s a good thing to play with, see if it works for you. But, you know, I don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s a I don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s there. Yep. Yeah.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian: <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u00a0\u00a0No I think, you know, you&#8217;ve crushed It fully by saying that it&#8217;s just kids love it and.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Karl Goodhew:\u00a0 \u00a0 <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Yeah. Oops. I don&#8217;t know. So I said QR codes. Do I think the QR codes are going to be around in five years? What&#8217;s that?<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian: <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u00a0\u00a0That&#8217;s awesome. Please go on, tell me.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Karl Goodhew:\u00a0 \u00a0 <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u00a0So QR codes have gone through this iteration of they were really big maybe five, ten years ago. Then they disappeared altogether. And it was all to do with the legality, like someone owned the patent on QR codes and sued everyone about it. Right. So I know. Macy\u2019s Got sued. JCPenney got sued because if you printed a QR code in a on paper, there was this company that had the patent and they would go after you. Wow. And so everyone backed off of it. And then I guess something happened. I guess you know, legally something happened with that patent <\/span><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">and they kind of flourished again.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian:\u00a0 <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u00a0That&#8217;s that&#8217;s actually quite surprising because do you know who had that patent? A person in which country?<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Karl Goodhew: \u00a0 <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">It was in the US, but.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian: <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u00a0\u00a0Wow. Because because China is probably pretty COVID. China probably was the largest user of QR codes. WeChat. Oh, China was like, I went to China, like in 2016 and 2017. The country had QR codes plastered all over the country for 20 reasons. Right, right, right. And I was like, Wow, these guys really love QR. Yeah, I mean, fast forward COVID, the world got plastered with it.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Karl Goodhew:\u00a0 \u00a0 <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Yeah, I, I struggle with it because I see them used in stupid ways, like on the back of a bus or something. She&#8217;s going to scan a QR code as the bus is driving by. I don&#8217;t know. But in the restaurant space I feel like to your point voice, I, I won&#8217;t need to scan a QR code Contextually, the phone knows where I am. They know that I&#8217;m in a restaurant. They know that I&#8217;m in your restaurant and I should be able to just open up safari or whatever, and it should just show me the menu contextually, it makes sense.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian:\u00a0 <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u00a0Maybe an auto wi fi. loader.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Karl Goodhew: \u00a0 <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Yeah, something like that. There shouldn&#8217;t necessarily be that human interaction of, Oh, I got to go to the camera app, I got to scan something and I got to click a button. I think we can get better than that. I don&#8217;t know what that replacement technology is, by the way, but I agree that it&#8217;s going to get there. What I am happy to see is that all these different flavors of QR have kind of gone away. But Microsoft had a version and, you know, it was it was almost like, Oh, what app do I need to download now? Yeah, that&#8217;s all gone away, which I&#8217;m glad.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian: \u00a0 <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u00a0I think mobile cameras have bridged that gap.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Karl Goodhew:\u00a0 \u00a0 <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Yes, definitely\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian: \u00a0 <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">No, but I think I again, you know, as a tech company though, we do those solutions. I, <\/span><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">I hate digital menus. I mean.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Karl Goodhew: \u00a0 <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">They&#8217;re hard to read, but they do help with pricing, dynamic.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian:\u00a0 <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">I mean, the utility is real, but the customer experience is bad. Right? Right. Sometimes it&#8217;s not even optimized for your phone. Correct. And you&#8217;re struggling with, you know, <\/span><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">scrolling too much even to find things. Even if you know that menu, it&#8217;s still a struggle. If I don&#8217;t know the menu, it&#8217;s struggle of a different order.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Karl Goodhew: \u00a0 <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Right. Right. I think the funniest one I saw was where I was at a bar and it was to scan them, scan the QR code to order your drink.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian: <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u00a0It threw a PDF?\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Karl Goodhew:\u00a0 <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Yeah, well, no it threw actually a system where for ordering. But it, it was just like pre-made cocktails and it&#8217;s like, well I know you got a full bar like how do I, how do I get my particular cocktail. Oh I got to talk to someone. What&#8217;s the point?<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian:\u00a0 <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">I think the best is that and I think a lot of five star hotels across the world got it. <\/span><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">I and I probably COVID and they didn&#8217;t have time. Right. And they continue to do that. I\u2019ll scan it in <\/span><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">like some random part of the world and it&#8217;s going to open a Google Drive PDF link. And I&#8217;m talking about I guess I&#8217;m talking about I don&#8217;t talk about like I&#8217;m talking about Starwood in the Marriott, right? <\/span><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">And I&#8217;m like, Whoa, guys, you really need to like, buck up like, this is this is bad. Like you at least give me a marriott link or something. You know, I don&#8217;t even remember what hotel was that. But multiple hotels.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Karl Goodhew:<\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Yeah.No, that&#8217;s terrible. You shouldn&#8217;t link to a PDF. Never to Google Drive.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian: <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u00a0It was a Google Drive.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Karl Goodhew: \u00a0 <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Oh, Google drive. Even better. Yeah. Yeah.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian: <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u00a0\u00a0Karl, this was this is this is a great conversation. Thank you. Yeah you know on the on the ending remarks would love to know you&#8217;re at MURTEC this is your first time at a restaurant tech conference. You told me this. Yeah. You&#8217;re right at the start. Where do you see restaurant tech is going? <\/span><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">What would you like to see at conferences like MURTEC? You know what? What? What did you what were you looking forward to?<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Karl Goodhew: \u00a0 <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Well, I think that MURTEC has just from my you know, I landed yesterday at 03:30 and I got to walk the floor and see what was there. I think that from a vendor perspective, it covers the gamut in terms of technology. I think there&#8217;s a gap in the partners not being there. So the DoorDash, GrubHub, Uber eats apps of the world, which which is interesting because they account for such a large portion of revenue.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian:\u00a0 <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">It is interesting,<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Karl Goodhew: \u00a0 <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">And I don&#8217;t get to beat them up on how crappy their APIs are. I think that there&#8217;s probably more real time data exchange that needs to happen. I think that I understand there&#8217;s a new <\/span><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">data format that&#8217;s being proposed that&#8217;s being, you know. From RTM. And RTM. And I think that that&#8217;s a huge step forward. I want to see those DSPs. I want to see the big online players adopt that. Otherwise it&#8217;s we need it adopted right. But I need I need real time information. I need to know where drivers are. <\/span><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">I need to know where, where, when food&#8217;s got to be ready, I need to know about refunds. I need to know about guest complaints. I, I think as an industry, we need to push for the walled garden to be taken down. <\/span><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">But it&#8217;s it&#8217;s something that you&#8217;ve got to be careful about because they they use those DSPs they own the relationship right now. And you can&#8217;t you can&#8217;t do it all at once.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian:\u00a0 <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u00a0Yeah. Yeah. And also I think this is something that I see around the world not only not only here, I think all the DSPs, all the marketplaces, they were so focused on, you know, getting the end consumer and holding the end consumer right. And look, and their worldview became so much that, hey, I am the guy who owns or has the customer. So you listen to me, right? You know, the negative side of that is that across the board, DSPs ended up ignoring what restaurants may need from them. <\/span><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Right. Be it APIs be it data, you know, be it consistency. You know, for example, you know like why is there no standard in APIs for DSPs around the world? Like handful. They&#8217;re like, we are integrated with 15 of them, you know, in multiple geographies. And I can tell you the struggle is is is almost similar everywhere because everybody is different. Right? And the problem at the core is not that they&#8217;re in I mean, I actually call it it&#8217;s not bad intent. It&#8217;s a lack of intent. I don&#8217;t even find that they&#8217;re like most of the times\u00a0 you had these conversations with them where they&#8217;re like, you know what? Why do I need to do that? Because that restaurant is your customer and that end consumer, that restaurant customer. And the restaurant is my customer. And if we don&#8217;t work together,this guy gets screwed and that guy gets screwed <\/span><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">and you get screwed. Like, what? What part of this equation is not is not clear to you, right? Like, Oh, <\/span><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">I didn&#8217;t think like that. I&#8217;m like, What? What is the way to think generally?<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Karl Goodhew:\u00a0 <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Yeah, I completely agree. And it&#8217;s a delicate balance because they do on so much of the marketplace and so much revenue flowing through their systems that you don&#8217;t want to be on their bad side either.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian:\u00a0 <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u00a0I don&#8217;t think you can be as well. You shouldn&#8217;t be. I mean, I personally am not a believer of, you know, debate on, you know, whether a brand should get all the orders directly or versus marketplace. I think I think it&#8217;s the reality is going to the marketplace. To be like right yeah. Because because consumer needs that comfort. Right. I don&#8217;t want to learn your app. I mean, I may love you as a brand now, but that&#8217;s not good. It&#8217;s not going to be my first port of call.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Karl Goodhew: \u00a0 <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">No, absolutely. I completely agree. So I don&#8217;t know if I answered your question there, <\/span><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">but I think that MURTEC seems like a lot of a lot of good sessions.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian: <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u00a0\u00a0I mean, this question is actually, you know, it has nothing to do with MURTEC. It&#8217;s really this question is really, you know, for me, just because we are here.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Karl Goodhew: \u00a0 <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Right. Right. No, I think that technology as a whole, it&#8217;s going to be extremely interesting over the next 24 months. What happens with the A.I. models? I envision a future where it&#8217;s not going to be for everyone, but the systems are going to know. Karl always gets pizza on Fridays, <\/span><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">and he usually rotates through these three different restaurants. Hey, Carl, it&#8217;s Friday. It&#8217;s 3:00. Do you want me to order that Pizza Hut with the cheese sticks? And. Oh, by the way, your loyalty program <\/span><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">is going to throw in a free medium. Do you want to use that coupon? I think we\u2019ll eventually get there. <\/span><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">The question is, who&#8217;s going to lead that charge? Who&#8217;s going to take advantage of it, and will customers be receptive to them?<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian: <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0Damn, That&#8217;s scary. I&#8217;ll tell you. Why? Not Because it&#8217;s intrusive. I&#8217;ll tell you, it&#8217;s it&#8217;s scary because the last release of dope that you had by saying, hey, I&#8217;m feeling hedonistic today, <\/span><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">I&#8217;m going to order pizza. And now that dope is taken away from you, so you&#8217;re going to find that dope in social media and probably you&#8217;re doing more reels and TikTok. So God bless the world. I think <\/span><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">that with AI dope is going to get depleted and people will actually spend that time on social media.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Karl Goodhew: \u00a0 <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Let&#8217;s hope their product I&#8217;m going to take a different worldview and say maybe they&#8217;re going to be productive. Instead, write a book instead of ordering pizza.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian: <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u00a0\u00a0Oh, come on. Oh, come on. That that was the most optimistic painting <\/span><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">somebody have ever said to me. On that note, Karl, this is this is great. Thank you, sir. <\/span><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Enjoyed this enjoyed this conversation.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Karl Goodhew:\u00a0 <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">All right.\u00a0 Appreciate it. Thank you, sir. 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