{"id":2014,"date":"2026-03-10T11:17:48","date_gmt":"2026-03-10T11:17:48","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/restroworks.com\/restrocast\/?page_id=2014"},"modified":"2026-03-10T11:17:51","modified_gmt":"2026-03-10T11:17:51","slug":"chef-khaled-albaker","status":"publish","type":"page","link":"https:\/\/restroworks.com\/restrocast\/chef-khaled-albaker\/","title":{"rendered":"How Chef Khaled Albaker Built Ventri Group in Kuwait"},"content":{"rendered":"\n[et_pb_section fb_built=&#8221;1&#8243; fullwidth=&#8221;on&#8221; admin_label=&#8221;Hero Section&#8221; _builder_version=&#8221;4.14.8&#8243; background_image=&#8221;https:\/\/restroworks.com\/restrocast\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/10\/law-firm-27.jpg&#8221; parallax=&#8221;on&#8221; custom_margin=&#8221;-100px||-32px||false|false&#8221; custom_padding=&#8221;|||&#8221; global_colors_info=&#8221;{}&#8221; theme_builder_area=&#8221;post_content&#8221;][et_pb_fullwidth_header title=&#8221;episode #65&#8243; subhead=&#8221;How Chef Khaled Albaker Built Brands by Learning Every Layer of the Business&#8221; 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custom_padding_phone=&#8221;50px||17vw||false|false&#8221; custom_padding_last_edited=&#8221;on|phone&#8221; hover_enabled=&#8221;0&#8243; content_font_size_last_edited=&#8221;off|desktop&#8221; subhead_font_size_tablet=&#8221;40px&#8221; subhead_font_size_phone=&#8221;30px&#8221; subhead_font_size_last_edited=&#8221;on|desktop&#8221; background_last_edited=&#8221;on|phone&#8221; background_image_tablet=&#8221;https:\/\/restroworks.com\/restrocast\/wp-content\/uploads\/2026\/03\/Chef-Khaled-Albaker-Banner.jpg&#8221; background_image_phone=&#8221;https:\/\/restroworks.com\/restrocast\/wp-content\/uploads\/2026\/03\/Chef-Khaled-Albaker-Banner-mobile.jpg&#8221; background_enable_image_tablet=&#8221;on&#8221; background_enable_image_phone=&#8221;on&#8221; button_one_letter_spacing_hover=&#8221;2px&#8221; button_two_letter_spacing_hover=&#8221;2px&#8221; global_colors_info=&#8221;{}&#8221; button_one_text_size__hover_enabled=&#8221;off&#8221; button_two_text_size__hover_enabled=&#8221;off&#8221; button_one_text_color__hover_enabled=&#8221;off&#8221; button_two_text_color__hover_enabled=&#8221;off&#8221; button_one_border_width__hover_enabled=&#8221;off&#8221; button_two_border_width__hover_enabled=&#8221;off&#8221; button_one_border_color__hover_enabled=&#8221;off&#8221; button_two_border_color__hover_enabled=&#8221;off&#8221; button_one_border_radius__hover_enabled=&#8221;off&#8221; button_two_border_radius__hover_enabled=&#8221;off&#8221; button_one_letter_spacing__hover_enabled=&#8221;on&#8221; button_one_letter_spacing__hover=&#8221;2px&#8221; button_two_letter_spacing__hover_enabled=&#8221;on&#8221; button_two_letter_spacing__hover=&#8221;2px&#8221; button_one_bg_color__hover_enabled=&#8221;off&#8221; button_two_bg_color__hover_enabled=&#8221;off&#8221; theme_builder_area=&#8221;post_content&#8221; title_text=&#8221;Chef-Khaled-Albaker-Banner-mobile&#8221; sticky_enabled=&#8221;0&#8243;]<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">In this episode, Ashish Tulsian speaks with Chef Khaled Albaker about his journey from finance to food, building Ventri Group in Kuwait, and the discipline behind great restaurants. They discuss craft, credibility, dining vs delivery, visible leadership, adapting through COVID, and why cash flow, detail, and human hospitality still matter most in restaurant growth.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"><a href=\"https:\/\/youtu.be\/OtLS4oMGzFE?si=7v80U4bLivtgkRcR\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" src=\"https:\/\/restroworks.com\/restrocast\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/11\/Youtube.png\" width=\"50\" height=\"50\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-355 alignnone size-thumbnail\" \/><\/a> \u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/episode\/6tq2zj3gcL56MfdfBbELgG?si=efKFwmyMQ2-qQKZC_Xcz6g\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" src=\"https:\/\/restroworks.com\/restrocast\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/11\/Spotify-1.png\" width=\"50\" height=\"50\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-356 alignnone size-thumbnail\" \/><\/a> \u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/in\/podcast\/how-chef-khaled-albaker-built-brands-by-learning-every\/id1649388502?i=1000754423088\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" src=\"https:\/\/restroworks.com\/restrocast\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/11\/apple-podcast.png\" width=\"50\" height=\"50\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-358 alignnone size-thumbnail\" \/><\/a> \u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/music.amazon.com\/podcasts\/0a73fe9e-112f-4ad3-ac57-44ae7a8d46e5\/episodes\/f88e1c57-5d33-4565-8eb0-af43f6d6d225\/restrocast-how-chef-khaled-albaker-built-brands-by-learning-every-layer-of-the-business\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" src=\"https:\/\/restroworks.com\/restrocast\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/11\/Amazon-1.png\" width=\"50\" height=\"50\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-359 alignnone size-thumbnail\" \/><\/a> <\/span><\/p>[\/et_pb_fullwidth_header][\/et_pb_section][et_pb_section fb_built=&#8221;1&#8243; custom_padding_last_edited=&#8221;on|desktop&#8221; admin_label=&#8221;Contact Form Section&#8221; _builder_version=&#8221;4.14.8&#8243; background_color=&#8221;#f1f5f9&#8243; max_width=&#8221;96%&#8221; module_alignment=&#8221;center&#8221; custom_margin=&#8221;||100px|&#8221; custom_margin_tablet=&#8221;||100px|&#8221; custom_margin_phone=&#8221;||100px|&#8221; custom_margin_last_edited=&#8221;on|phone&#8221; custom_padding=&#8221;80px||0vw||false|false&#8221; custom_padding_tablet=&#8221;80px||0vw||false|false&#8221; custom_padding_phone=&#8221;0px||||false|false&#8221; global_colors_info=&#8221;{}&#8221; theme_builder_area=&#8221;post_content&#8221;][et_pb_row column_structure=&#8221;1_2,1_2&#8243; _builder_version=&#8221;4.14.8&#8243; _module_preset=&#8221;default&#8221; width=&#8221;100%&#8221; locked=&#8221;off&#8221; global_colors_info=&#8221;{}&#8221; theme_builder_area=&#8221;post_content&#8221;][et_pb_column type=&#8221;1_2&#8243; _builder_version=&#8221;4.14.8&#8243; _module_preset=&#8221;default&#8221; global_colors_info=&#8221;{}&#8221; theme_builder_area=&#8221;post_content&#8221;][et_pb_text _builder_version=&#8221;4.14.8&#8243; _module_preset=&#8221;default&#8221; custom_margin_tablet=&#8221;&#8221; custom_margin_phone=&#8221;|||15px|false|false&#8221; custom_margin_last_edited=&#8221;on|phone&#8221; global_colors_info=&#8221;{}&#8221; theme_builder_area=&#8221;post_content&#8221;]<h3><span style=\"color: #333333;\">ABOUT THE HOST<\/span><\/h3>[\/et_pb_text][et_pb_divider color=&#8221;#29cb8b&#8221; divider_weight=&#8221;3px&#8221; _builder_version=&#8221;3.2&#8243; max_width=&#8221;50px&#8221; locked=&#8221;off&#8221; global_colors_info=&#8221;{}&#8221; theme_builder_area=&#8221;post_content&#8221;][\/et_pb_divider][et_pb_image src=&#8221;https:\/\/restroworks.com\/restrocast\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/10\/THE-HOST-ASHISH-TULSIAN.png&#8221; title_text=&#8221;THE-HOST-ASHISH-TULSIAN&#8221; _builder_version=&#8221;4.14.8&#8243; _module_preset=&#8221;default&#8221; global_colors_info=&#8221;{}&#8221; theme_builder_area=&#8221;post_content&#8221;][\/et_pb_image][et_pb_text _builder_version=&#8221;4.14.8&#8243; _module_preset=&#8221;default&#8221; text_font_size=&#8221;18px&#8221; custom_margin_tablet=&#8221;&#8221; custom_margin_phone=&#8221;|||15px|false|false&#8221; custom_margin_last_edited=&#8221;on|phone&#8221; global_colors_info=&#8221;{}&#8221; theme_builder_area=&#8221;post_content&#8221;]<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Ashish is a serial entrepreneur and serves as the CEO &amp; <\/span><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Co- Founder of Restroworks.<\/span><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u00a0<\/span><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">He is one of the entrepreneurs who has mastered the art of bootstrapping startups to scale. Ashish is a prolific angel investor and mentors budding entrepreneurs and startups in Silicon Valley and India.<\/span><\/p>[\/et_pb_text][\/et_pb_column][et_pb_column type=&#8221;1_2&#8243; _builder_version=&#8221;4.14.8&#8243; _module_preset=&#8221;default&#8221; global_colors_info=&#8221;{}&#8221; theme_builder_area=&#8221;post_content&#8221;][et_pb_text _builder_version=&#8221;4.14.8&#8243; _module_preset=&#8221;default&#8221; custom_margin_tablet=&#8221;&#8221; custom_margin_phone=&#8221;|||15px|false|false&#8221; custom_margin_last_edited=&#8221;on|phone&#8221; locked=&#8221;off&#8221; global_colors_info=&#8221;{}&#8221; theme_builder_area=&#8221;post_content&#8221;]<h3><span style=\"color: #333333;\">ABOUT THE GUEST<\/span><\/h3>[\/et_pb_text][et_pb_divider color=&#8221;#29cb8b&#8221; divider_weight=&#8221;3px&#8221; _builder_version=&#8221;3.2&#8243; max_width=&#8221;50px&#8221; locked=&#8221;off&#8221; global_colors_info=&#8221;{}&#8221; theme_builder_area=&#8221;post_content&#8221;][\/et_pb_divider][et_pb_image src=&#8221;https:\/\/restroworks.com\/restrocast\/wp-content\/uploads\/2026\/03\/About-Chef-Khaled-Albaker.png&#8221; alt=&#8221;David Bloom&#8221; title_text=&#8221;About Chef Khaled Albaker&#8221; _builder_version=&#8221;4.14.8&#8243; _module_preset=&#8221;default&#8221; custom_margin=&#8221;-20px||||false|false&#8221; custom_padding=&#8221;0px||0px||false|false&#8221; hover_enabled=&#8221;0&#8243; locked=&#8221;off&#8221; global_colors_info=&#8221;{}&#8221; theme_builder_area=&#8221;post_content&#8221; sticky_enabled=&#8221;0&#8243;][\/et_pb_image][et_pb_text _builder_version=&#8221;4.14.8&#8243; _module_preset=&#8221;default&#8221; text_font_size=&#8221;18px&#8221; min_height=&#8221;105.6px&#8221; custom_margin_tablet=&#8221;&#8221; custom_margin_phone=&#8221;|15px||15px|false|true&#8221; custom_margin_last_edited=&#8221;on|phone&#8221; custom_padding=&#8221;0px|||||&#8221; hover_enabled=&#8221;0&#8243; locked=&#8221;off&#8221; global_colors_info=&#8221;{}&#8221; theme_builder_area=&#8221;post_content&#8221; sticky_enabled=&#8221;0&#8243;]<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Chef Khaled Albaker is a Kuwait-based chef and restaurateur, and co-founder of Ventri Group, the hospitality company behind concepts including Young Po, Roto, Ruby\u2019s, and Dragon Bun. A Johnson &amp; Wales graduate with over a decade in F&amp;B, he is known for building distinctive restaurant brands shaped by craft, operational discipline, and local market insight.<\/span><\/p>[\/et_pb_text][\/et_pb_column][\/et_pb_row][et_pb_row _builder_version=&#8221;4.14.8&#8243; width=&#8221;100%&#8221; max_width=&#8221;100%&#8221; custom_margin=&#8221;5%|||&#8221; custom_margin_tablet=&#8221;5%|||&#8221; custom_margin_phone=&#8221;18%||||false|false&#8221; custom_margin_last_edited=&#8221;on|phone&#8221; custom_padding=&#8221;0px|0px||0px|false|false&#8221; use_custom_width=&#8221;on&#8221; width_unit=&#8221;off&#8221; custom_width_percent=&#8221;100%&#8221; global_colors_info=&#8221;{}&#8221; theme_builder_area=&#8221;post_content&#8221;][et_pb_column type=&#8221;4_4&#8243; _builder_version=&#8221;3.25&#8243; custom_padding=&#8221;|||&#8221; global_colors_info=&#8221;{}&#8221; custom_padding__hover=&#8221;|||&#8221; theme_builder_area=&#8221;post_content&#8221;][et_pb_text _builder_version=&#8221;4.14.8&#8243; text_font=&#8221;Raleway|800|||||||&#8221; text_font_size=&#8221;21vw&#8221; text_line_height=&#8221;0.8em&#8221; header_font=&#8221;||||||||&#8221; text_orientation=&#8221;right&#8221; background_layout=&#8221;dark&#8221; custom_margin=&#8221;-64px||-5.5vw|||&#8221; custom_margin_tablet=&#8221;&#8221; custom_margin_phone=&#8221;||-8vw|&#8221; custom_margin_last_edited=&#8221;on|desktop&#8221; animation_style=&#8221;slide&#8221; animation_direction=&#8221;bottom&#8221; animation_intensity_slide=&#8221;10%&#8221; animation_starting_opacity=&#8221;100%&#8221; text_font_size_tablet=&#8221;&#8221; text_font_size_phone=&#8221;&#8221; text_font_size_last_edited=&#8221;on|tablet&#8221; global_colors_info=&#8221;{}&#8221; theme_builder_area=&#8221;post_content&#8221;]<p>Speakers<\/p>[\/et_pb_text][\/et_pb_column][\/et_pb_row][\/et_pb_section][et_pb_section fb_built=&#8221;1&#8243; custom_padding_last_edited=&#8221;off|desktop&#8221; admin_label=&#8221;Information Section&#8221; _builder_version=&#8221;4.14.8&#8243; background_color=&#8221;#FFFFFF&#8221; max_width=&#8221;100%&#8221; module_alignment=&#8221;right&#8221; custom_padding=&#8221;0px|0px|3px|0px|false|false&#8221; custom_padding_tablet=&#8221;||120px|&#8221; locked=&#8221;off&#8221; global_colors_info=&#8221;{}&#8221; theme_builder_area=&#8221;post_content&#8221;][et_pb_row _builder_version=&#8221;4.14.8&#8243; _module_preset=&#8221;default&#8221; width_tablet=&#8221;&#8221; width_phone=&#8221;96%&#8221; width_last_edited=&#8221;on|phone&#8221; custom_padding=&#8221;0px|||||&#8221; link_option_url=&#8221;<div id=%22buzzsprout-player-12521774%22><\/div><script src=%22https:\/\/www.buzzsprout.com\/2042325\/12521774-rise-to-the-top-the-story-of-wow-bao-s-geoff-alexander.js?container_id=buzzsprout-player-12521774&#038;player=small%22 type=%22text\/javascript%22 charset=%22utf-8%22><\/script>&#8221; sticky_position=&#8221;top&#8221; global_colors_info=&#8221;{}&#8221; theme_builder_area=&#8221;post_content&#8221;][et_pb_column type=&#8221;4_4&#8243; _builder_version=&#8221;4.14.8&#8243; _module_preset=&#8221;default&#8221; link_option_url=&#8221;<div id=%22buzzsprout-player-12521774%22><\/div><script src=%22https:\/\/www.buzzsprout.com\/2042325\/12521774-rise-to-the-top-the-story-of-wow-bao-s-geoff-alexander.js?container_id=buzzsprout-player-12521774&#038;player=small%22 type=%22text\/javascript%22 charset=%22utf-8%22><\/script>&#8221; global_colors_info=&#8221;{}&#8221; theme_builder_area=&#8221;post_content&#8221;][et_pb_text _builder_version=&#8221;4.14.8&#8243; _module_preset=&#8221;default&#8221; sticky_position=&#8221;top&#8221; hover_enabled=&#8221;0&#8243; global_colors_info=&#8221;{}&#8221; theme_builder_area=&#8221;post_content&#8221; sticky_enabled=&#8221;0&#8243;]<h1 id=\"audio\">Episode #65<\/h1>\n<script src=\"https:\/\/www.buzzsprout.com\/2042325\/episodes\/18821430-how-chef-khaled-albaker-built-brands-by-learning-every-layer-of-the-business.js?container_id=buzzsprout-player-18821430&#038;player=small\" type=\"text\/javascript\" charset=\"utf-8\"><\/script>[\/et_pb_text][\/et_pb_column][\/et_pb_row][\/et_pb_section][et_pb_section fb_built=&#8221;1&#8243; custom_padding_last_edited=&#8221;off|desktop&#8221; admin_label=&#8221;Information Section&#8221; _builder_version=&#8221;4.14.8&#8243; max_width=&#8221;100%&#8221; module_alignment=&#8221;right&#8221; custom_padding=&#8221;14px|0px|54px|0px|false|false&#8221; custom_padding_tablet=&#8221;||120px|&#8221; locked=&#8221;off&#8221; global_colors_info=&#8221;{}&#8221; theme_builder_area=&#8221;post_content&#8221;][et_pb_row _builder_version=&#8221;4.14.8&#8243; _module_preset=&#8221;default&#8221; width_tablet=&#8221;&#8221; width_phone=&#8221;96%&#8221; width_last_edited=&#8221;on|phone&#8221; custom_padding=&#8221;0px|||||&#8221; global_colors_info=&#8221;{}&#8221; theme_builder_area=&#8221;post_content&#8221;][et_pb_column type=&#8221;4_4&#8243; _builder_version=&#8221;4.14.8&#8243; _module_preset=&#8221;default&#8221; global_colors_info=&#8221;{}&#8221; theme_builder_area=&#8221;post_content&#8221;][et_pb_tabs active_tab_background_color=&#8221;#8300E9&#8243; inactive_tab_background_color=&#8221;#B3B3B3&#8243; 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theme_builder_area=&#8221;post_content&#8221; sticky_enabled=&#8221;0&#8243;]<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">In this episode, Ashish Tulsian sits down with Chef Khaled Albaker, co-founder of Ventri Group, for a candid conversation on what it takes to build restaurant brands that last. Khaled shares how he left a career in finance, moved to Miami to study Culinary Arts, and learned the discipline of world-class kitchens where execution comes down to relentless attention to detail.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">He breaks down why credibility matters before raising capital, why he spent years learning every layer of restaurant operations, and how Ventri Group approaches multi-brand growth across dine-in concepts and cloud kitchens. The episode also dives into his strong views on hospitality: why dining out is about experience while delivery is about convenience, why QR menus can reduce discovery to a transaction, and why leadership must stay visible on the floor.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Khaled reflects on adapting through COVID, the rise of homegrown brands in Kuwait, and the non-negotiables he believes every aspiring restaurateur must understand, especially cash flow.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"><\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Find us online:\u00a0<\/b><\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian-<\/b><a href=\"https:\/\/www.linkedin.com\/in\/ashishtulsian\/\"> <b>LinkedIn<\/b><\/a><b>\u00a0<\/b><\/p>\n<p><b>Chef Khaled Albaker- <\/b><a href=\"https:\/\/www.linkedin.com\/in\/khaled-albaker-2044a6163\/?originalSubdomain=kw\"><b>LinkedIn<\/b><\/a> <\/p>[\/et_pb_tab][et_pb_tab title=&#8221;Transcript&#8221; _builder_version=&#8221;4.14.8&#8243; _module_preset=&#8221;default&#8221; body_font_size=&#8221;18px&#8221; tab_font_size=&#8221;18px&#8221; tab_letter_spacing=&#8221;1px&#8221; custom_padding=&#8221;40px||40px||true|false&#8221; hover_enabled=&#8221;0&#8243; global_colors_info=&#8221;{}&#8221; theme_builder_area=&#8221;post_content&#8221; sticky_enabled=&#8221;0&#8243;]<p><b>Ashish Tulsian:\u00a0<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Tell us about your early years.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Chef Khaled Albaker:\u00a0<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">I studied four years accounting and finance, came back to Kuwait. I was an auditor with Deloitte. And it&#8217;s there where I found I can&#8217;t work for someone else. I need to work for myself. Six, seven hours a day, just YouTubing how to cook recipes. And then I&#8217;d finish work, go to the grocery store, buy food, go home and make dinner. That&#8217;s when I decided, how can I bridge the two? My passion of food and cooking.<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian:\u00a0<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Tell me a little bit about what&#8217;s your business today?\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Chef Khaled Albaker:\u00a0<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">I was going to open an Arabic taco arabe.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian:\u00a0<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Really?<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Chef Khaled Albaker:\u00a0<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">So I came to you and I told you, let&#8217;s open a restaurant. You look at me like, who are you? That&#8217;s when I realized I have to build a name for myself to get someone to come invest with me.<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian:\u00a0<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">How much you hate QR code menu?\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Chef Khaled Albaker:\u00a0<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">A computer or a machine or a QR code or a robot or whatever it is, cannot upsell.<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian:\u00a0<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Honestly, tech companies like us will say, yes, we can.<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Chef Khaled Albaker:\u00a0<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">You go to Doha, you go to Saudi, you see entire restaurants in Kuwait. The market is very tough, but it&#8217;s still, I think, one of the highest performing markets in the Middle East.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian:\u00a0<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">What has changed in you as a person? Because, you know.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Chef Khaled Albaker:\u00a0<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Before I left Miami, my chef said, I don&#8217;t have any words of advice. Do you have anything you need to, like, what can you share? He said, lose your ego. And that stuck with me from day one till now.<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian:\u00a0<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">When you say that it&#8217;s not financially rewarding, then what&#8217;s the point? Hi, welcome to RESTROCAST. Today, my guest on the pod is Chef Khaled Albaker. He&#8217;s a partner at Ventri Group. This conversation is one of a kind. It is about a finance professional who quit, not only to become a restauranteur, but became a chef to become a restauranteur. He became a chef, joined culinary school in the US, and then came back to Kuwait to start a successful restaurant business.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">In this conversation, you will see why Khaled is and should be called Chef Khaled more than Restauranteur Khaled, because his attention to detail, things that he notices, things that he loves, and will tell you why his restaurants are successful, why he is, you know, doing what he&#8217;s doing. And it&#8217;s really inspirational for anybody who&#8217;s willing to start in the restaurant business, but really wants to do it the right most way. Do watch.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Welcome to RESTROCAST.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">So, Khaled, welcome to RESTROCAST.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Chef Khaled Albaker:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Thank you for having me. It&#8217;s a pleasure.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian:\u00a0<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">I always tell people that people don&#8217;t get into the restaurant industry, you know, knowingly or by choice. Generally, they do everything else in the world and somehow fall into it. And the kind of insanity that restaurants bring to somebody, I think you have to be really, really insane to stick to it. I know that you were also not restaurant trained. Tell us about your early years.<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Chef Khaled Albaker:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">My background was in accounting and finance. I studied four years accounting and finance, came back to Kuwait. I was an auditor with Deloitte for a few years, and then I switched to Equate Petrochemicals. And it&#8217;s there where I found I can&#8217;t work for someone else. I need to work for myself. And that&#8217;s how I started this whole entrepreneurial look. I want to work for myself. I cannot be a salaried clock-in, clock-out employee.<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Why?<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Chef Khaled Albaker:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">I cannot perform if it&#8217;s for somebody else.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">But you did that long enough.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Chef Khaled Albaker:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">I know, but I can&#8217;t put in the time, and then you get all the rewards. And I&#8217;m just a salaried employee, but I&#8217;m doing all the work. It just didn&#8217;t click. So I had to, if I work from, even if you&#8217;re a barber, you cut hair, you get the money. It&#8217;s your, you work for what you&#8217;re doing. You get rewarded for what you&#8217;re doing. So I needed something where it&#8217;s my work and I get the reward. And in Kuwait, it&#8217;s either a hair salon or a gym or an application if you have, you start something. But you have to start something. I took the food route. I was good in food in terms of, I loved food. You know, I love to eat. This is how it started, you know.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">I would travel around the world looking for restaurants, chasing Michelin star chefs, the best restaurants in the world. And just go, my trips and vacation was very food focused. And that&#8217;s how this all started. Never cooked anything. I hated the kitchen, didn&#8217;t come near the kitchen. I was a disaster in the kitchen. You know, four years in uni by myself, I think I cooked maybe five times. Spaghetti, eggs, that&#8217;s the max I could do.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">I can relate.<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Chef Khaled Albaker:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">So I never really had any interest in this business from the get-go. But then I started with time. Like I said, I started to eat. I was a foodie. And then slowly, slowly I started to transition into the kitchen. There was a company opened here called Prime Cuts in Kuwait.<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Prime Cuts.<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Chef Khaled Albaker:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">And they were the first, let&#8217;s say, gourmet butchery. The first to introduce chill Australian meat, Wagyu beef. You know, we didn&#8217;t have Wagyu beef in Kuwait before. This was 2012.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">2012?\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Chef Khaled Albaker:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Yeah. And a cousin of mine was the manager at the time. So while setting up the business, he started to import, you know, kgs and kgs and kgs of beef. Tons of beef. So every night, you know, we had the whole, we&#8217;ll watch the game, grill some steaks, some burgers. And slowly, slowly we were grilling four or five nights a week. So I started to like cooking. This is when it grew on me. You know, I&#8217;m like, okay, this is fun. You know, the whole grilling, we&#8217;ll do a cigar, have a watch the game. That slowly, slowly I transitioned into the kitchen. Let&#8217;s make some new sides. Let&#8217;s make some appetizers. Let&#8217;s make some salads. Before you knew it, I was in New York six, seven hours a day, just YouTubing how to cook recipes. And then I&#8217;d finish work, go to the grocery store, buy food, go home and make dinner.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Started to invite friends over for dinner. I&#8217;d start hosting dinner parties. I got pretty good at cooking. You know, I was an average home cook. And that&#8217;s when I decided, how can I bridge the two? My passion of food and cooking.<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">And this is while you were still in finance.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Chef Khaled Albaker:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">I was working full time in finance. How can I bridge the two to work for myself? I said, you know what? Restaurant business. I quit my job, took my last paycheck, took my indemnity, took everything and moved to Miami. I went to culinary school in Johnson and Wales University. And I studied Culinary Arts there. And I spent, that was the beginning of my career, 2012. And I studied in Miami. I was there for two years. I worked there for a year. Then I moved back to Kuwait around 2015.<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">How was that? That is so cool. So how was going back to the school and back to, you know, culinary school? What was shocking? What was interesting?<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Chef Khaled Albaker:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">So this school I had actually visited in 2003 when I went to university the first time. I wanted to take cooking classes. So I saw that they had cooking courses. So I wanted to take cooking courses so I can learn to cook for myself. And I wanted to sign up. They said, sure, you know, you can use the application, pay application fees. It&#8217;s a year-long course. And we&#8217;ll give you the I-20 for your visa. And I&#8217;m like, I don&#8217;t need a visa.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">I&#8217;m just here, you know, for a cooking class. He said, no, no, this is a culinary school. And tuition is $50,000. I said, huh? I&#8217;m like, I was 18 at the time. I&#8217;m not going to ask my father, can I have $50,000 to go to culinary school? Fast forward 10 years, I went back to the same school. And I paid for the culinary school. So it was a very nice experience.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">You know, I got to spend two years in Miami. And I learned a lot. You know, culinary school is an important. Look, this is an experience-based business. Culinary school, you know, it teaches you a lot in a fast time. Versus if you were just to go in the kitchen and learn the hard way. You know, most people can&#8217;t. They think culinary school is a luxury. And I tell a lot of people this here, colleagues of mine that are new in the business, that want to become a chef or they&#8217;re amateur cooks. So look, you don&#8217;t need to go to culinary school. You need to get your butt in the kitchen and work 10 hours a day. And eventually, you&#8217;ll get there. You know, it&#8217;s an experience-based business. So that was my journey. That&#8217;s how I ended up in Miami.<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Awesome. Tell me a little bit about what&#8217;s your business today. What are you doing today?<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Chef Khaled Albaker:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">So I&#8217;m a co-founder of a group called VentrI Group. And we own and operate several F&amp;B outlets in Kuwait. So we have Yang Po, which is Asian. From Yang Po, we did a spin-off brand called Dragon Bun, which is a burger restaurant, Japanese burger restaurant. And then we have Roto, which is like wood-fired rotisserie. You know, we have Middle Eastern, rotisserie chicken, kebab, shish-tahoo. We have Little Ruby&#8217;s, which is an American bistro. And we have four outlets of those. It&#8217;s burgers, pizza, pasta, you know, just American family.<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Regular American family.<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Chef Khaled Albaker:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">And then I have Mike Mann Italian restaurant. And I have little delis, like a gatherings and catering kind of restaurant. So we own and operate the group.<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Got it. How many locations in total?\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Chef Khaled Albaker:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">We have total, I think around 11 kitchens. Let&#8217;s say six dining and then the rest are cloud kitchens.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Okay, the same brands are also&#8230;\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Chef Khaled Albaker:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Yeah, I have different cloud kitchens, depending on the brand. Some are delivery based, some are dining based.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">And how long, you know, this has been?\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Chef Khaled Albaker:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Since 2018. Well, Ruby&#8217;s actually 15 years, but I joined later. So they opened Ruby&#8217;s in 2010. I joined in 2018. And you know, it&#8217;s been now six years together.<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">We&#8217;ll go back to, you know, your story on culinary school. So Miami, you came back, I&#8217;m assuming in 2014 or 2015.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Chef Khaled Albaker:<\/b><\/p>\n<ol start=\"2015\">\n<li><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"><\/span><\/li>\n<\/ol>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">So did you work in Miami?<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Chef Khaled Albaker:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">I worked for a year. Yeah, I worked in South Beach. There was a chef called Danny Grant. He was a Michelin star chef from Chicago. And he opened the restaurant in Miami called 1826. 1826. And I worked there for a year. I did my start there, an internship. And I asked to continue, can I stay on and work here? Because I really liked the place. And then after that, I moved back to Kuwait. So this was where, I didn&#8217;t plan on coming back to Kuwait.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">I wanted to stay in the US, you know, make my career there. But that&#8217;s when I realized I&#8217;m a, you know, small fish, big pond, versus if I come back to Kuwait. You know, this industry is very difficult in the US. You&#8217;re working 15 hours, 16 hour days for $10, $11 an hour. And to really make it, you have to really grind for, you know, 10 years to become an executive chef. And maybe one day raise the money to open your own place. It&#8217;s a very difficult business in the US. I had no connections, no family, no name, you know. Versus in Kuwait, I already had my circle. I had my people. My family was here. So I knew it would be easier, let&#8217;s say, for me to find investors and to make a name for myself in Kuwait versus the US. And this is where I made the decision to move back home.<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Miami, you know, three years in Miami, back to Kuwait is like two different worlds.<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Chef Khaled Albaker:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Yeah, but I grew up here. So I wasn&#8217;t, you know, I used to come home a lot. Every like once, twice a year, I would come home. So I was always used to it. You know, Kuwait was always home. I lived my whole life here.<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">You worked for a Michelin star chef as, you know, earliest part of the career. What separates restaurants which are great versus, you know, restaurants who get a Michelin star? What&#8217;s that thing like?<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Chef Khaled Albaker:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Attention to detail. All the details.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Give me an example.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Chef Khaled Albaker:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Presentation, speed, time, service, and decor. I mean, every, okay. Now, if we&#8217;re going to get into Michelin, that&#8217;s a different ballgame. But I&#8217;m talking about in terms of the chef and your regular cook in a regular, diner, it&#8217;s the attention to detail.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">You know, I can make a dish, put some potatoes and a steak and serve it out. But then with the chef, attention to detail, you know, he&#8217;ll come, you&#8217;ll have it perfectly portioned, perfectly sliced. Each slice is the exact same slice. Arranged in a plate with a sauce that&#8217;s been cooking for 22 days to prepare one sauce. And, you know, it&#8217;s these kinds of details. I mean, a steak is a steak.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">But if you look at the Michelin star restaurant, and if you go to Applebee&#8217;s and get a steak, they&#8217;re both steaks. But the details are what makes the chef. And that&#8217;s where I picked up a lot of things. And the way they work, the way, how meticulous they are. You know, like Michelin star chefs and restaurants are like surgeons. You know, the way they&#8217;re 12 hours on their feet, they work with similar tools, you know, the tweezers and everything. And it&#8217;s just very intricate, very delicate work for that 12 hour shift. So it&#8217;s the details, attention to detail.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">And what part of that you imbibed, you know, in your current work? How did you bring?<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Chef Khaled Albaker:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">It&#8217;s a blend. I&#8217;m not after a Michelin star. I&#8217;m not after that fine dining scene. It&#8217;s not me. And it&#8217;s not something I like to do. I like to eat it. I like to enjoy it. But I like more casual place because that&#8217;s me. Like when I take the family out, I&#8217;m going to go out for a meal. We don&#8217;t want to go to fine dining or a Michelin star. We want to go enjoy good food. Because not all these Michelin restaurants have good food. You know, for me, it&#8217;s like theater. I like to go spend three hours in a restaurant. Correct. And have two or three Michelin star restaurants and have a 15 course meal. But drive my wife crazy. And she says, you know, the food, every bite&#8217;s this big. I leave. I have to go eat McDonald&#8217;s after because I&#8217;m still hungry.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">How many times has that happened to you?<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Chef Khaled Albaker:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">It&#8217;s happened. It&#8217;s not about that. Again, I&#8217;m not going to the restaurant to eat.<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">It&#8217;s embarrassing how many times it has happened to me. Yes. But after a 13 course or a 15 course meal, I basically went and had a bite.<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Chef Khaled Albaker:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Change your mentality.<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">It&#8217;s not a meal.<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Chef Khaled Albaker:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Yeah. It&#8217;s theater. Correct. It&#8217;s theater. I&#8217;m going to this place to see how the chef, which is the artist, manipulate food and ingredients and see what he can do. They take something as simple as a carrot and he&#8217;ll turn it into a masterpiece. They&#8217;ll take it, form, do whatever. There&#8217;s a million things they can do that I can&#8217;t even think of. And then he comes in and tells me this is a carrot. I&#8217;ll be like, yeah. So I&#8217;m not going to eat and enjoy the best carrot or the best dish or the best everything. No, it&#8217;s theater. You&#8217;re seeing what he can do.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Yeah, you&#8217;re not going there for a meal. Stomachful meal.<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Chef Khaled Albaker:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">It&#8217;s just theater. You&#8217;re going to see what he can do with food. So it&#8217;s plating, presentation, the plates he used. What kind of flavors can actually happen. Exactly. You know, some people, they like this whole molecular gastronomy now. It&#8217;s not for everyone. Yeah. But I think it&#8217;s fascinating.<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">It is. For sure.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Chef Khaled Albaker:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">It&#8217;s fascinating when they get you a little cloud that tastes like potato and then a marshmallow that tastes like an apple. And it&#8217;s crazy what you can do with food. The food science is, it&#8217;s really crazy. And I find it fascinating. But would I ever apply it in my restaurants? No.<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">I think I tried something in molecular gastronomy, I don&#8217;t know, 15 years back. And I remember, and in those days YouTube was not that big.<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Chef Khaled Albaker:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Exactly.<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Yeah. But I remember that I got so fascinated by the process of what happened here. You know, I put something in my mouth and it burst into something completely different. It tastes that strong. I was like, wow. I mean, unless this is absolutely chemical and synthetic, I really need to get to the bottom of this. How did this happen?<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Chef Khaled Albaker:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">It&#8217;s very natural. Natural food ingredients.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Yeah, that&#8217;s crazy.<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Chef Khaled Albaker:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">And it&#8217;s alarming, the things they find out and discover. Like, you know, if you take from the extract from this fruit, you have a natural binder that will emulsify this and make this, you know, it&#8217;s crazy. So that&#8217;s how, I mean, it&#8217;s a very different experience, dining versus your own restaurant.<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">So Chef, when you came back to Kuwait, how was the journey after that? What were the early years like?<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Chef Khaled Albaker:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">There is a very big food group here called MMC, which owns Le Notre. And they have a very big catering company and they have a good 15 outlets, 16 outlets. They&#8217;re one of the top F&amp;B groups in Kuwait. So when I moved back, I took some time off. I wanted to start my own restaurant, actually. And I was working with a group of friends to start my own restaurant. We had a nice idea. We started looking for locations and then it just went downhill. It didn&#8217;t work out. And I&#8217;m glad it didn&#8217;t, because had we opened that restaurant, I knew&#8230;<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">But why do you say it didn&#8217;t work out?<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Chef Khaled Albaker:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">One of the partners was just, you know, he fell out of it. He&#8217;s like, I don&#8217;t want to do this anymore. You guys can go ahead. And we couldn&#8217;t find the right location for many, many reasons. But it was a blessing because we were not ready. This would have gone very south, very quick. And I think the best thing to ever happen, because at the point, at the time, I thought I knew what I was doing. But you fast forward. Now, I look back and I said I had no idea what I was doing. Like the amount I learned in the past 10 years versus at that time. So&#8230;<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Tell me, tell me some example of a thought where you&#8230;<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Chef Khaled Albaker:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">The location was wrong. The idea was wrong. The food, the service, running that place.<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">What were you trying to do in food?<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Chef Khaled Albaker:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">I was going to open an Arabic taco arabe.<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Arabic taco arabe?<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Chef Khaled Albaker:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Yes, a Kuwaiti taco arabe, actually.<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Really?<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Chef Khaled Albaker:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">So tacos, but in Kuwaiti flavors.<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Yeah, I get that. Is that a thing?<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Chef Khaled Albaker:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">It actually tastes great. I&#8217;ve made it many times. They taste amazing. But I knew nothing about the restaurant industry. Nothing. Suppliers, schedules, inventory, accounting, nothing. So if I was to open this business, I would have failed incredibly fast. So there was a company called MMC Catering, like I told you. I applied for a job there and I was hired. I was the brand manager and executive chef for a company called Meme Cafe.<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Meme Cafe?<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Chef Khaled Albaker:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Meme Cafe. It was like a Mediterranean type of food. And I started there. And I worked there for two years until I met my partner and we started Roto, which was the first restaurant.<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Wasn&#8217;t that against that entire idea of leaving the job at Deloitte that I don&#8217;t want to work for somebody else?<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Chef Khaled Albaker:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Again, I need to build credentials. If I want to raise money, for example, to open a restaurant, and I was working at Deloitte at the time, or Equate, sorry. And I was a financial analyst. I came to you and I told you, let&#8217;s open a restaurant. Give me $100,000 and we&#8217;ll open a restaurant. You look at me like, who are you? Yeah. So that&#8217;s when I realized I have to build a name for myself to get someone to come invest with me. So I quit my job. I went to culinary school. I worked in Miami. I came back to Kuwait.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">I worked in one of the biggest companies. And I&#8217;ve worked everywhere in this industry from bartending to bouncer to Guard-Marj, to service, to cleaning, to grill. I worked all sectors just so I can learn this industry.<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">How did you get a chance to work all sectors in Miami?\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Chef Khaled Albaker:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">In Miami. I worked different jobs. I worked at a nightclub. I was a bouncer at a nightclub. Just to see the service industry. And I worked all aspects, even for a few weeks, just to get an idea of this industry and how it works and what to do. And then I moved back. So I was well-versed in the industry. I got a good job. I was in the right place at the right time. So I built a name. And that&#8217;s when my partner came along and he invested in me. We opened Roto together.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">In 2018?<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Chef Khaled Albaker:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">In 2018, yes. That&#8217;s when we met. We opened two months before COVID. We opened December 2019 and then COVID happened in March. Wow, yeah.<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">I actually don&#8217;t know how COVID dealt with in Kuwait.<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Chef Khaled Albaker:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Kuwait was the longest country in the world in quarantine and shutdown.<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Oh, because the rest of the Middle East was kind of open.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Chef Khaled Albaker:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Kuwait was the longest in the world.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Okay, I&#8217;ll talk more about that. So you started Roto in 2018, right?<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Chef Khaled Albaker:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">We opened in December 2019.<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Oh, so you started in 2018.<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Chef Khaled Albaker:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">We started in 2018, you know, finding a location, building on the concept, working, finding staff, branding, etc.<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Got it. And you opened and COVID hit.<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Chef Khaled Albaker:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">We opened three months later, COVID hit.<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">How was that?<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Chef Khaled Albaker:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Fantastic. You can&#8217;t make this up. This is something if I was to go back at the time, can you ever imagine the entire world shutting down? Yeah, of course. In your wildest dreams, you will never ever expect or think of something like COVID. And not only did I open one restaurant, I opened two. I opened one in December and I opened one in January. It was magma.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Wow.<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Chef Khaled Albaker:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Two months later, I closed both. And they were designed or engineered, let&#8217;s say, to be dine-in concepts.<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Damn. Even better.<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Chef Khaled Albaker:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">I had no packaging or nothing. I went from 100% dine-in to 100% delivery overnight. And at the time, they didn&#8217;t even allow deliveries, you know. They had stopped us completely shut down.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Early months.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Chef Khaled Albaker:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Exactly. So yeah.<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">So how did you survive through that? And I mean, you know, take me through like not the COVID part. I mean, I know that COVID conversations have been overdone in the world. But from a business perspective.<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Chef Khaled Albaker:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Managing cash flow. You know, we saved what little money we had, spread it out. You know, we cut our employees. We took pay cuts. Our employees took pay cuts. And we told our employees, we&#8217;re like, listen, we either all take a pay cut. You know, even us. To survive or you&#8217;re all terminated. Then we all close down shop, you know.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">We all try and survive or nobody survives. And they were all on board. They know. I&#8217;m like, listen, you&#8217;re all, you have shelter. You have food. Because the amount of people that lost their jobs, that couldn&#8217;t afford their rents.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">That had no money, had no food. Was alarming. So I said, you know, we were in this together. Either we fight together and we try to survive. Or we close up shop and everybody goes home. So my staff was very understanding. They all knew that this was a pandemic. And there was nights, I mean, they closed down entire areas in Kuwait. Nobody could leave and exit like Mahboula. It was a complete lockdown. You cannot leave or enter this area. And I had around 15 staff members staying there. They left and they slept in the office for three days. And we turned our office into bedrooms. There was mattresses on the floor. People sleeping on the floor. People sleeping on the couch. Just three days. Just to stay and go to work in the next morning. Because if they went back home, they don&#8217;t know when they can leave. And there&#8217;s no access to food. There&#8217;s no access to many things.<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">But how was it from a business perspective? Given that you started these two dine-in brands.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Chef Khaled Albaker:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">No business. 20% of our sales a day.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Correct. But you were still young brands, right? So you were saying that people basically started ordering online.<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Chef Khaled Albaker:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Ruby&#8217;s was not a young brand. Ruby&#8217;s was a very established. It&#8217;s been there again for eight years of time now. You know, it&#8217;s a fan favorite in Kuwait. It&#8217;s a very well-known brand. We have six locations. People love it. So that was good. And then we started trends. The car dining. We got on board with that. We had the trays. Bring the tray to your car. People will come out and dine in cars. So that helped a lot. That brought us some money. Delivery brought us some money. We started a brand called Little Deli. Which was, you know, the cook at home. So I looked at my point. I&#8217;m like, listen, if we can&#8217;t sell our food, we sell the wrong ingredients. So we started to make a box. We package your food with instructions. And we send you the box.<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Like deli style meat.<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Chef Khaled Albaker: (25:43)<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">DIY. Everything. Pasta. We&#8217;ll send you the sauce. We&#8217;ll send you the pasta. We&#8217;ll send you the cheese. We&#8217;ll send you the garnish. With the instruction card how to cook the pasta. And this is the pink pasta that you love to eat. We gave you the recipe. Here, cook it at home. We started to make frozen pizzas. That you just have to bake it.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Reheat.<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Chef Khaled Albaker:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">So we started this whole cook at home trend. And I had friends that would start to. So I started on my Instagram. I cook a new recipe every night. And I&#8217;ll show you what you can do with these ingredients. And what you can cook with these ingredients. So people started to watch and cook. And try and do. So many things, you know.<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">I think it&#8217;s amazing, you know, how creative the world got during COVID. And I think the only analogy which is very disturbing. But, you know, from a scientific standpoint. Or from a progress standpoint still holds. Which is, if you see most of the science and technology. Whether it&#8217;s, you know, space, defense, communication. All of that actually happened through World War I and World War II. And post that, nothing happened. Like the progress has been incremental.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Leap shifts haven&#8217;t happened. And COVID became like another, you know, such thing. So it&#8217;s very, you know, it&#8217;s disturbing. Because, you know, at times when I think about it. I&#8217;m like, damn. Am I saying, okay, world has to be in danger to progress. But it seems like the answer is yes.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Chef Khaled Albaker:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">I mean, it&#8217;s survival. Sparks something in you.<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">No, but in the restaurant space, I saw so many brands. As you said, right, you open two concepts. Which are not designed for delivery. They were dining experiential, you know, places. You know, so many brands in the world. So many chefs in the world. Who basically always looked down upon delivery as a concept. Pre-COVID. Compulsion brought something very different. But interestingly, none of them. And I know none who stopped deliveries after COVID. And for me, that was a bigger thing. I can understand that you do everything for survival. But I think the fact that you discovered. That, hey, you know, I was wrong. This is not only viable. This is great. To an extent.<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Chef Khaled Albaker:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">For example, Yang Po, I don&#8217;t deliver. And I won&#8217;t deliver. It&#8217;s a dining experience. At the end of the day, food is not just. When you eat at home, it&#8217;s for survival, I think. You know, it&#8217;s for comfort. It&#8217;s for ease. It&#8217;s not an adventure. It&#8217;s not exciting. It&#8217;s just, you&#8217;re sitting at home with your wife. What do you want to eat? You want to make dinner? No, okay. Let&#8217;s order a burger. Let&#8217;s order anything, Chinese salad. It&#8217;s convenience. But for me, it&#8217;s not experience. And dining out is the experience. I like the experience of dining out. I like to go in a new place, I look at the decor, I look at the plates, I look at the experience from the door. Am I being greeted? Do I seat myself? Where is the host from? What are they wearing? The uniforms? I pay attention to all these things and you know, they&#8217;re seated at the table, they give you the menus, I like to sit and read the menu. Reading a menu that 10 minutes is a whole different adventure.<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">How much you hate QR code menus?\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Chef Khaled Albaker:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">I don&#8217;t hate them. I don&#8217;t have it.<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Plus one.<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Chef Khaled Albaker:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">I don&#8217;t have it in Yang Po., I refuse.<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">I ask for physical, and I don&#8217;t know, I mean, I run a restaurant tech company, but I hate QR menus. I always ask for physical menus everywhere, yesterday evening as well, you know.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Chef Khaled Albaker:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">I hate them, I hate pictures in menus.<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">I don&#8217;t mind actually pictures in menus.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Chef Khaled Albaker:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">No, because it&#8217;s.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">But I don&#8217;t look for them.<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Chef Khaled Albaker:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">It spoils the look.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">But I love explanations, see, I think when you don&#8217;t have explanation, then I would not mind a picture, but I love explanations, honestly.<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Chef Khaled Albaker:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Yes, but look, the whole experience starts from reading the menu. It builds excitement. When you come and you read, oh, let&#8217;s, I mean, wasabi cauliflower or whatever, you know, it&#8217;s something that will pick your, oh, what is this? The name excited me. That gets endorphins and things starting in your brain, you start getting excited. And then you read the description and you get even more excited.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Six hour braised, you know, all these keywords they use to get you excited. And that can tell a completely different story than a picture. The picture might not represent the actual taste of the dish. And that excitement process is all right. I like to open the menu, see how it&#8217;s designed, how many items in the menu. And I start to read, and I read item, item. Oh, I want this. Oh, I want this. Let&#8217;s get this. Let&#8217;s get this as part of the discussion. What do you want? You want to share this? Okay, we&#8217;ll share this. You know, everybody gets excited for the meal. You don&#8217;t get that at home.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">So that&#8217;s what I&#8217;m telling you. The dining out is a whole different experience. And then the food comes, you eat with your eyes first. Or sometimes, you know, you&#8217;re in the restaurant, you look over there, who would he order? Yeah, yeah. Because you saw it. I want that. You don&#8217;t know where it is. But you saw it. And something piqued your interest. You don&#8217;t get this at home. And people and how they&#8217;re dressed and who&#8217;s there and what are they wearing. And you&#8217;re looking around the restaurant, who&#8217;s with who, who&#8217;s there, you know, this whole experience, you don&#8217;t get that at home. So that&#8217;s why I think dining business will always remain. I don&#8217;t think this is a business that will ever be replaced with technology.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">How many tech companies come and try to have ordering process? Okay, if I give you a QR code of my menu, when you come and you read, you&#8217;re gonna get you&#8217;re gonna see, okay, I&#8217;ll have spring rolls, Mongolian beef. And that&#8217;s it. But if I come to your table, now there&#8217;s a human element involved. Greetings, sir. How are you? Welcome to restaurant. What can I get you? Have you read the menu? Sure, I read the menu. I want the spring rolls and the Mongolian beef. Sure, you have to try the prawn on toast. You have to try the prawn on toast. If you don&#8217;t get it, trust me, you will love it. It&#8217;s the best thing in the menu. How can you upsell? A computer or a machine or a QR code or a robot or whatever it is cannot upsell.<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">I mean, honestly, tech companies like us will say yes, we can.<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Chef Khaled Albaker:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Yeah, you find little tools where you put a discount.<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">No, I hear you. But I hear you.<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Chef Khaled Albaker:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">I think there&#8217;s a human element that will never go away.<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">But how do you train those humans? I think I&#8217;ll tell you one observation that I have. And I&#8217;m, you know, saying this, yeah, I&#8217;ve been a restaurant to myself before, you know, tech, so I have empathy for operators.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">But at the same time, one thing that I observed is that in certain parts of the world where I never thought self-ordering, you know, will pick up because those were, you know, labor surplus countries, you know, Middle East is labor surplus, India, a lot of Asia is all labor surplus. So I thought self-ordering will never pick up here from a business standpoint. And, you know, Europe and US, UK, etc, have lack of people, probably it will. Interestingly, post-COVID, I&#8217;ll tell you a stat. We are selling self-ordering of all types and kinds, QR code, kiosks, website, mobile apps, etc, in equal proportion in both sides. And I got really shocked when labor surplus countries started ordering that. I was like, why are you guys ordering like you have a lot of people? And I realized something disturbing where, you know, people said, well, we have people, that&#8217;s not the problem. Problem is, we will train those people. And how do you keep up that training? So we have figured that because we have not been able to, you know, train a human to continuously intervene, ask and do it, you know, at the right spot and correctly, we would rather have a machine do it and machine is doing better for us. And I got shocked because, you know, I didn&#8217;t read that before I should have. So back to your point, how do you bring that element where, you know, server can actually command or ask or tell me that, hey, you know, you should order this.<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Chef Khaled Albaker:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">You either have it or you don&#8217;t. It&#8217;s charisma. I can&#8217;t teach.<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">But how do you scale? How do you scale?<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Chef Khaled Albaker:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">I can&#8217;t teach charisma. So I have waiters that are like robots. They&#8217;re going, taking the order. But these guys are making the same mistakes every time. They&#8217;re always ignoring customers. When I receive a complaint, it&#8217;s from this guy. I know. But I have guys that are, no, it&#8217;s charisma. When you come to the table, am I smiling? Am I laughing? Do I introduce myself? Do I greet you? You know, it&#8217;s a big difference. Ah, how are you, sir? Welcome back. Good to see you again. And I remember, I remember you came last time. Last time you had the short rib. Try the Mongolian beef this time.<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Yeah, that can just sweep customer off their feet.<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Chef Khaled Albaker:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Wow. You remember what I had. You remember me. Yeah. Makes me feel important. Makes me feel special. So it&#8217;s charisma. I&#8217;m smiling. I know how to talk to you. I&#8217;m not shy. And in labor intensive countries, like you said, labor or people in the service industry tend to be shy. Yeah. And tend to be afraid of diners, or they tend to not be themselves.<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">That they have never learned to express.<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Chef Khaled Albaker:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">There&#8217;s always that block where, you know, it&#8217;s, he&#8217;s maybe, I&#8217;m a server, he&#8217;s a guest. And, you know, and you see it in India a lot though. And you see it in the Middle East a lot, you know.<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">A lot.<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Chef Khaled Albaker:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Some people, they don&#8217;t, and they might look down at them in some places. And they don&#8217;t speak to them with the same level of respect. But if you change that around, and you have charisma, and you talk to them, like, again, we&#8217;re all the same.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">The US does it best. Exactly.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Chef Khaled Albaker:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">They will look at you differently. Yeah. And there&#8217;s different drivers. So in this part of the world, labor is cheap. You know, I can get a server for $500 a month. In the States, you can&#8217;t get anything for that. And not just that. Now, what the States does, I&#8217;m completely against this. But end of the day, this is, I think, proves to work. When you look at service in the States versus service in Europe, the States is so much better. Why?\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">As compared.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Chef Khaled Albaker:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Yeah. Why is it better? Because their wage is dependent on tips.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Correct.<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Chef Khaled Albaker:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Your tips are dependent on what? On your level of service. Yeah. If you&#8217;re a good server, and you give me a good serve, you make more. So that, biologically, just trained you to become a nicer person, to become a better server. If you remove that element, so if your tips are, if your wage is completely tip-based, you&#8217;re going to be a superstar. And that&#8217;s why in the US, I know some restaurants, they have two guys that can manage an entire floor, where here, 10 people can&#8217;t manage.<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Not some, I mean, so many as most of the restaurants. And I mean, people are like absolute ninjas.<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Chef Khaled Albaker:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">What two or three guys can handle, the 10 people here couldn&#8217;t handle. And I do that here. When I work floor a lot, more than kitchen, because it&#8217;s important for me to be seen on the floor. When I work floor, I&#8217;m better than four guys combined. It&#8217;s because it&#8217;s like a game of chess. I have to plan ahead. These tables just sat, he has to order, he&#8217;s getting his food, greet him, say hello to them, take their order, come back, deliver here, come here. What I&#8217;m expecting he&#8217;s going to, what he&#8217;s going to order next, ready for dessert, clean. I have a plan in my head of what&#8217;s happening. The other guys I look at them, they&#8217;re just running back and forth. You know what I mean? So it&#8217;s a game plan, it&#8217;s strategy, it&#8217;s timing, it&#8217;s a game of chess. You really have to know how to manage the floor. And there&#8217;s a science behind it. So you either have it or you don&#8217;t.<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Almost feels like that you miss doing it full-time.<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Chef Khaled Albaker:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">I don&#8217;t do it full-time, but I still do it enough.<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">You do it enough?<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Chef Khaled Albaker:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">I do it once, twice a week.<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">That is awesome, actually. That&#8217;s quite amazing. So do you have regular customers who know you?<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Chef Khaled Albaker:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Of course. All my customers. But I&#8217;m in the restaurant once, twice a week. I serve, and I&#8217;m on the floor, and I&#8217;m going, greeting guests. Again, the human element. If you know this restaurant is by a Kuwaiti chef, and you don&#8217;t see him, what&#8217;s the point? But if you go to the restaurant, and you see the Kuwaiti chef, oh, it&#8217;s Chef Khaled. Oh, can I take a picture? Can you call our server, take the order? It&#8217;s fine, I&#8217;ll take the order. Really? What&#8217;s your order? I recommend this, take that, trust me.<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Do you see that power equation shifting in that moment, where your patron is hesitant in giving you the order? Absolutely.<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Chef Khaled Albaker:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">I clean most tables. When I bust tables, they look at me, they&#8217;re like, why are you busting the tables? And my staff will stop whatever they&#8217;re doing, and they&#8217;ll come to bust the table. And I look, I&#8217;m like, go back to your table, finish your work, I am free, I will bust the table. You have more important things to do. Or in the kitchen.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">In the kitchen, I&#8217;ll grab the mop, and I&#8217;ll mop the floor. And then they&#8217;ll all stop, and I&#8217;m like, you&#8217;re in the middle of cooking a dish for a customer, go back to the grill, you go back to the dish pit, I&#8217;m free, I&#8217;ll mop the floor.<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">That is such a strong&#8230;<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Chef Khaled Albaker:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">I don&#8217;t care.<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">That is such a strong way to&#8230;<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Chef Khaled Albaker:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Yeah, when they see you, lead by example, it sets the tone. I&#8217;m not the owner, I&#8217;m not the boss. When we are on the floor, we all have the same goal.<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">I think owner figures, what you&#8217;re making is a very strong point. Because owner figures, as in, you know, are also painted differently. The fact is that, you know, if responsibility or the load on your shoulders has any connection to how much will you do on the floor, then owner should be the one who should be doing the maximum, right? Because buck stops at you at the end of the day.<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Chef Khaled Albaker:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Listen, every restaurant in the world is run by who? You see the one over there. The wife&#8217;s in the\u2026 The husband&#8217;s in the kitchen, the wife is on the floor. It&#8217;s a family business, you know? But in this part of the world, again, like you said, we are lucky to have labor. I can afford to hire someone and let them do the work. In the US, you can&#8217;t afford it. Labor is much more expensive.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Or in the UK, or in New York, labor is much more expensive. I can&#8217;t afford to have three waiters, and three servers, and a barman, and a barista, and a busser, and a runner. I won&#8217;t make money. That&#8217;s why I have to be on the floor. I&#8217;m writing the tables. So if you go to Europe, you&#8217;ll always see the owner going around, talking to the tables, taking the orders, doing everything. It&#8217;s how you survive. You don&#8217;t have the luxury of staff. So unfortunately here, I have the luxury of staff, and I have a huge team. But at the same time, I like to lead by example.<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Khaled, what has changed in you as a person? Because, you know, one, Khaled is a finance guy versus Khaled in the kitchen. And then, 10 years in the kitchen. So I would slice it in three parts. Do you have, do you introspect and see what changed in you as a person?<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Chef Khaled Albaker:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Not much, to be honest. I&#8217;m the same guy.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">I mean, finance guys don&#8217;t really yell in the kitchen.<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Chef Khaled Albaker:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">No, I never yelled in the kitchen. I was yelled at in the kitchen, but I don&#8217;t yell in the kitchen. I joke around. I&#8217;m always joking in the kitchen, and that hasn&#8217;t changed. That&#8217;s how I am. How I am in the kitchen is the same as how I am everywhere. I don&#8217;t like to, I don&#8217;t need the element of fear. I don&#8217;t need you to fear me. I need you to respect me. So I never was, oh, I&#8217;m going to do this, or I&#8217;m shouting in the kitchen. No, if you mess up in the kitchen, you&#8217;ll know when I&#8217;m mad. Sometimes, yeah, I do get mad, and I&#8217;m like, listen, you&#8217;re doing this wrong. You&#8217;re wrapping this up. You&#8217;re doing that. No, get your thing together.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">But it&#8217;s not like every day, you know, Gordon Ramsay, hey, stupid, what are you doing? No, I haven&#8217;t really changed from day one till now. I lost, look, from day one till today, before I left Miami, my chef said, I don&#8217;t have any words of advice. Do you have anything you need to, like, what can you share? He said, lose your ego. And that stuck with me from day one till now.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">I don&#8217;t have an ego. You can say what you want about me. You can do what you want about me.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">I don&#8217;t care. My goal is to make my customers happy, make a living for myself, and better the industry, for my country. So these are my goals, and that&#8217;s what I&#8217;m focused on. So whatever happens in between, I don&#8217;t care. I&#8217;m here to help. I have no secrets. I&#8217;m an open book. You need anything, I&#8217;ll give it to you. You need a supplier. You need a recipe. You need help on this. I&#8217;ll help you. Nothing&#8217;s above me. Nothing&#8217;s below me. That&#8217;s why\u2026\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">That&#8217;s very powerful what you&#8217;re saying, right? Because you&#8217;re precisely saying that you&#8217;re not offendable. And if you&#8217;re not offendable, then nobody else controls you.<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Chef Khaled Albaker:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Exactly.<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">But what was the process of evolution to this? I&#8217;m sure there was a point where some things.<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Chef Khaled Albaker: 43:37<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">I take it as it goes. I became a chef. Okay, what do I do now? Start a restaurant. All right, started the restaurant. What&#8217;s next? COVID. Do I quit the restaurant business and go find a job? I don&#8217;t know. I opened six more restaurants in COVID. So me and my partner looked at each other while everybody was closing shop. We doubled down.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">We took three more locations during COVID. We got an investor, and we said, listen, because COVID created opportunities. So what used to cost, for example, a million dollars in avenues, I got for free and key money. I took three, four locations on very cheap versus what they would have cost me pre-COVID. So it&#8217;s opened a lot of doors. And then once we reopened from COVID, we made a lot of money. You know, our bet worked. Things started to settle down. Okay, what&#8217;s next? Change the concept. You know, I have an avenue. Stop performing. Close. You know, there is no right or wrong answer in this business. You just have to adapt to what&#8217;s happening. So there was no turning point. I&#8217;m on a journey. Whatever happens along the way, you try to self-right the ship. You know, COVID happened. Okay, what do we do? Boom, boom, boom, boom. We closed. We did. We did.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">We opened new outlets. We&#8217;re going again. After COVID, there was a huge spike in business. Everybody had money. Everybody was going. What do we do? Open more. We took two more locations. We went from three locations to 11 during COVID after those two years. Now, I&#8217;m back down to seven or eight. I&#8217;m scaling now. I&#8217;m closing. I&#8217;m flipping. The market&#8217;s not the same. What do I do? I have to adapt.<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">How&#8217;s Kuwait as a market for? I mean, I see a ton of American, European brands here, and I see a lot of, you know, young Kuwaiti brands, such as yours, relatively young and more coming. How&#8217;s the market? Is the market really differentiating between Kuwaiti homegrown brands versus, you know, foreign brands? And is there a favoritism or is there an inclination?<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Chef Khaled Albaker:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Absolutely. Kuwait was very much a franchise-based country. All our restaurants were franchises from outside. There was very few locally grown concepts. But that all shifted between 2010, let&#8217;s say, to 2015. Today, it&#8217;s, I would say, mostly homegrown concepts.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Most?\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Chef Khaled Albaker:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Mostly. Oh, wow. And the homegrown concepts are actually outperforming all of the franchises, you know, in all sectors. Coffee, some of them are homegrown in terms of fast, casual, in terms of your picks, and like, you know, what&#8217;s the one? Pret. Pret A Manger.<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Correct.<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Chef Khaled Albaker:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">You have local brands that Pret cannot even begin to compete with, like Pick and Anas. And these brands can compete globally now. We have actually set, Kuwaitis are very, like, they&#8217;re big innovators. And they&#8217;re very creative, and they&#8217;re great at producing concepts, whether it&#8217;s in all aspects. So, for example, Talabat. Talabat is a Kuwaiti company. Yep. It was made in Kuwait, grown and sold. So now Talabat is on par with Deliveroo globally. This is a UK company. So one of the biggest companies in the world in terms of food delivery is Talabat. And they&#8217;re all over the Middle East.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">That started in Kuwait. You know, a lot of these companies, whether in tech, whether in coffee, whether in burgers, fast food, fine dining now, are Kuwaiti. You know, two of the busiest restaurants are, like, one Chinese, one Italian. Compared to the franchise Chinese or franchise Italian, the local ones are doing better. And they are just as good an experience, if not better than the franchise. So we&#8217;ve actually gotten better at producing ourselves than the franchises.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">And if you look at that same model, now it&#8217;s starting to reflect in Saudi and in Dubai. Dubai, you think, is a better food scene than Kuwait. But Dubai was all franchises. Every restaurant in Dubai, whether it was a fast casual, it was a franchise. Now, in the past, let&#8217;s say, three, four years in Dubai, you started to see the shift. Orfale started to open his own concepts.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Chef Akmal opened, you know, three fills, goldfish. These are all local concepts, chef-driven concepts that you didn&#8217;t have before in Dubai. They were all franchises. D.I.F.C. is all franchises. Maybe one or two restaurants now started to become, like, Chef Izu, Ani, Maison Ani. These are all chef-driven. That didn&#8217;t exist before. Yeah, yeah, these are all Izu. Izu was the only one at the time. But now, you have Orfale, you have Akmal, you have Solomon from Moonrise, you have Hatem Matar, you have all these guys coming up with what made now the local Dubai food scene. This didn&#8217;t exist before. So Kuwait is actually way ahead of Dubai in that scene.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">And do patrons care?\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Chef Khaled Albaker:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Of course. Why? They all look for it. It&#8217;s a Kuwaiti restaurant, Kuwaiti concept, Kuwaiti chef, we go there. And that became the norm. It became the norm that we no longer know if it&#8217;s Kuwaiti or not. We assume everything is Kuwaiti.<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">No, I mean, that&#8217;s a big deal because I see that as a, I mean, you know, not many markets actually can say that, right? For example, Dubai at the end of the day doesn&#8217;t care. I mean, patrons don&#8217;t care. They want a great experience. They want a good restaurant. They want a new thing.<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Chef Khaled Albaker:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Because the patrons are not local.<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Correct.<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Chef Khaled Albaker:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">So they don&#8217;t care if it&#8217;s local or not. For us, supporting local is huge. My coffee is from where? It&#8217;s not from Starbucks or Nestle or, my, it&#8217;s from 48 East, a local coffee shop. If you buy bread, you don&#8217;t buy from an international bakery. You buy from a local bakery. KDD. I use KDD for Kuwait for our dairy. Or Al Mera&#8217;i. Al Mera&#8217;i is Saudi, but we use KD Cow. We use, I mean, the bakery, we have Kuwait flour mills. We love this brand.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">We use it in everything. All our breads, all our, everything comes from our flour. Everything comes from Kuwait flour mills, which is a Kuwaiti company. So we all support from the back end to what the customer receives are all Kuwaiti brands. And that&#8217;s very important for us.<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">How&#8217;s this, the Kuwaiti market is, I mean, of what I have experienced through some of the brands that we work with here, is a very high consumption market. I don&#8217;t think I&#8217;ve seen a higher per capita consumption anywhere else in the world so far. Like, I remember, you know, we started working with Caribou Coffee here, and the early numbers that we heard from them, and I was like, doesn&#8217;t add up like what&#8217;s happening here.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Exactly how many people are drinking coffee and how much are they drinking coffee. What&#8217;s, you know, if you had to tell the world and, you know, think about somebody who&#8217;s, who doesn&#8217;t know about Kuwait, if they are watching this, what will you, how will you explain what&#8217;s the consumption here per capita at a population level? Like, how do you explain that? How many people go out? How many times do they eat?<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Chef Khaled Albaker:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">They go out every day, some people. They order out every day. Kuwait does more deliveries than the entire city of London. I think than the entire country of Germany, when I was looking at stats in terms of number of deliveries.<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Really?<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Chef Khaled Albaker:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Per capita, Kuwait has one of the highest number of deliveries in the world. Dining out, you go to Doha, you go to Saudi, you go to, you know, see entire restaurants empty. In Kuwait, no, the market is very tough, but it&#8217;s still, I think, one of the highest performing markets in the Middle East. You know, Dubai is based on tourists, but go to Abu Dhabi or go to Sharjah and look at the food scene there. And the locals, the behavior is completely different. Kuwaitis, we like to go out and we&#8217;re out every other day.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">You know, they like to go out. You have some people, four or five nights a week. My mother goes out to eat five, six nights a week.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Your mother?\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Chef Khaled Albaker:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">My mother. So it&#8217;s part of their culture here. We like to go out. We like to experience, and we like to spend, and we like to share, and we like to experience. You know, and when I went to Saudi, if me and you went out to lunch in Saudi, it&#8217;s very much like self, like, OK, I&#8217;ll have an appetizer, you&#8217;ll have an appetizer, we&#8217;ll have one meal, and we&#8217;ll leave. In Kuwait, no, it&#8217;s not what you want to eat. We have four appetizers, two mains, and we share everything. They don&#8217;t have that concept in the rest of the GCC as much as here.<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Really?<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Chef Khaled Albaker:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Yeah, they don&#8217;t share. It&#8217;s not a sharing concept as much as you are here. We like to order. Like, you know, you got a pasta, I got a burger in Saudi. Done. Here, no, I get salad, pasta, an appetizer, and then you get the burger and I&#8217;ll get my burger. We share everything. So it&#8217;s still one of the strongest markets, I think, in the GCC, and one of the still fastest growing markets. You know, we have more restaurants, I think, than per capita. We have one of the highest in the world.<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">But where is that growth coming from? And I&#8217;m just wondering, because, you know, Dubai, I know, population is increasing. Saudi, I know, they&#8217;re trying to, you know, increase their population with all the new initiatives. Kuwait, I&#8217;m not very sure of the population. Like, where&#8217;s the growth in the market? Is it more money or is it more people?<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Chef Khaled Albaker:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">There is money. I mean, there is money in the market. There is, it&#8217;s not more people, no. It&#8217;s not a big growth in people. It&#8217;s just, it&#8217;s a small, it&#8217;s always been a small market. It&#8217;s shifting, it&#8217;s a lot more competitive now. It&#8217;s very, very difficult, but that also keeps you on your feet. You know, you have to keep innovating, you have to keep creating new, you have to keep changing, keep adapting. You know, what I used to, I need 10 out to survive, not three.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Or I can do my own one-on-one workshop. It&#8217;s just a very difficult market. And then social media and trends and getting all of that. So you have to be on top of your feet, on top of your game and everything. Constant marketing, constant photoshoots, campaigns, podcasts, videos, events, dinners, collaborations. That&#8217;s how you keep the goal.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">But it&#8217;s temporary, you know. Last year I did a pop-up, did very well. This year, if I do the same pop-up, it might fail. So I want to do something else. You know, it&#8217;s that constant new, creating new. You know, you had the group Melanzani, they did a whole pop-up called Melanzani by the Sea. And you&#8217;re talking at least, I think there&#8217;s at least three, four, five million on this concept. And it&#8217;s a pop-up. It&#8217;s amazing. But they did that for one year, second year, third year, fourth year, fifth year and they closed. What are they going to do now? Pop-up, buy another brand, create something else, create something new, you know.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">So people have to constantly keep creating and that&#8217;s how you keep the market alive. But I don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s a growing market, I just think it&#8217;s a changing one. Constantly.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Tell me a bit about your personal side.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Chef Khaled Albaker:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Married, two-year-old, very, very easygoing. I like to spend time with my family, spend time with friends, very social. I go out a lot.<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">But restauranters and restauranters become, you know, available at, the wrong most times, right?<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Chef Khaled Albaker:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">So balance, I create a balance for myself. Or I might be busy three nights or four nights a week, I&#8217;ll free up those nights and spend time with family. I might be busy in the mornings, I&#8217;ll clear out one or two mornings to spend time with my wife. I spend, let&#8217;s say, three nights working, I&#8217;ll make sure those three nights I&#8217;m out and about and I&#8217;m social and I&#8217;m with friends and I&#8217;m with family. So it&#8217;s just a balance of your schedule and you create time for everybody in your life.<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Yeah, because the restaurant industry can actually just&#8230;<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Chef Khaled Albaker:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Absolutely, I mean I can live in the restaurant and spend every day there. But if I don&#8217;t create time for myself, again, being here I&#8217;m fortunate enough and in my company I&#8217;m fortunate to have this balance. Some people, you know, they eat, sleep and drink in the restaurant.<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">What do you do to keep yourself enriched? How do you learn? What&#8217;s your learning system?<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Chef Khaled Albaker:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">YouTube, I read, Instagram, research, you know, I spend a lot of time just watching, reading.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">What are you researching? Are these like random rabbit holes or?\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Chef Khaled Albaker:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Random rabbit holes versus actual like research. What&#8217;s next? I&#8217;m always thinking about what I&#8217;m going to do next.<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Give me an example of like how will you research on what&#8217;s next?<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Chef Khaled Albaker:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">So travel I&#8217;m saying for example. If I went to Dubai and I found a restaurant I fell in love with or I fell in love with a dish. I thought it was genius. I&#8217;ll come back to Kuwait. Research, read, check, YouTube, recipes, R&amp;D, give the staff, train, check until I get to that dish. It could be a movie. Watching a movie and something comes up. Pause, I like this dish. I like to go out to eat a lot because that&#8217;s where I learn a lot. When I walk into a restaurant I come and I check the plates. What&#8217;s the brand? I take a picture. I take a lot of pictures. I post a lot on Instagram and I see reactions to people if they like this dish or not. Or I&#8217;ll save it for later. It&#8217;s non-stop. Anywhere I can get any source of inspiration. I note it down and I come back to it.<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">I think travel is extremely important if you&#8217;re really building concepts for people. You said you also read. What are you reading?<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Chef Khaled Albaker:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Magazines, articles, newspaper articles. I&#8217;ll get on cookbooks. I read a lot of cookbooks, hard copies. I buy a lot of hard copy cookbooks. I don&#8217;t like to just get online and read a recipe. Many things. Anytime I can find, when I travel a lot, the airplane, sometimes you have the guidebook. I take that and I read it. It tells you restaurants because those are very localized.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">When I went to the Philippines there was a magazine in the airplane. I took that and read that magazine. That gave me three, four of the best restaurants to go to. Where to stay, what to visit, what to do. I cross chat GPT. Creates entire itineraries for me. Creates dishes for me. There&#8217;s many things. A little from here, a little from here, a little from here until I build something solid.<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">What will you tell a young restauranteur or an aspiring restauranteur who comes to you today and is willing to start, has money to invest? Because a lot of people in the restaurant world jump in for wrong reasons. And they only realize it after burning their money.<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Chef Khaled Albaker:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">It&#8217;s not a financially rewarding industry. It can be. But in general it&#8217;s not.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Then why should we do it?\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Chef Khaled Albaker:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Most people don&#8217;t do good. I would actually suggest most people not to get into this industry. But if you have the passion and you insist on it, you have to have thick skin. You have to have a proper business plan. It&#8217;s ups and downs. And a lot of people, like you said, they don&#8217;t have the right market study. They don&#8217;t have a proper financial study. Your business plan is very important. Some people just come and open. Why did you open? Oh, I always want to make money.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Okay, but where are you buying your ingredients? Are you monitoring your cash flow? You know, cash flow, I think, maintaining and monitoring your cash flow is the most important thing in this business. You know, you can be profitable, but you have zero cash. You&#8217;ll start to burn, you know. So just really research and do a proper study on if you want to enter this business.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">And sit down and reach. I mean, if somebody reached out to me, I&#8217;ll sit down. I&#8217;ll go through their study and I&#8217;ll help them. And I&#8217;ll tell them if they&#8217;re doing something wrong or if it&#8217;s right or what to add in the menu or if this doesn&#8217;t sell. There&#8217;s many people like me that you can talk to that can guide you.<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">When you say that it&#8217;s not financially rewarding, right? You know, then what&#8217;s the point?<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Chef Khaled Albaker:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Passion. I know friends that they make their own schedule. They work three nights a week. And they serve a very niche product. And they&#8217;re happy. They&#8217;re not after&#8230;<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">I mean, but restaurants&#8230; And I&#8217;m double clicking on it because that&#8217;s exactly what\u2026 I think certain industries are like honey traps. You know, restaurant is definitely one of them. It&#8217;s a honey trap. It looks very glamorous from outside. It looks very cool. And it guzzles a lot of money.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">So, it&#8217;s a full money guzzling engine. Now, you know, passion like learning guitar doesn&#8217;t cost a lot of money. But passion like restaurant, if you just call it passion and if you call it not financially rewarding, then it&#8217;s confusing because it is a high investment plan.<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Chef Khaled Albaker:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">But there&#8217;s many paths you can take in this industry. I mean, I know Instagram chefs that are making more money than I can ever imagine. And they barely know how to cook. Why? Because they have a million followers. But they barely know how to hold a knife. But that&#8217;s route work for them. Content creation can be very financially rewarding. I tried that route. I failed. It&#8217;s because I found out it&#8217;s a skill I don&#8217;t have. Food photography. A friend of mine, she makes two, three thousand dollars a day shooting food. I can do that. No, I can&#8217;t.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">But there&#8217;s many routes you can take. Food photography, food styling, podcasting, YouTube, content creation, recipe development, consulting. My friend of mine has his own restaurant. But he became a very popular consultant chef. And he charges a premium and he takes three clients a month or two clients a month.<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">But you&#8217;re telling me all the ways of making money from restauranters.<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Chef Khaled Albaker:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">There is.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">How does the restauranteur make money?\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Chef Khaled Albaker:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">It depends. It depends on the restaurant. There&#8217;s a lot of luck involved. A lot of timing involved. Sometimes you do something at the right time, you become very successful.<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">If you don&#8217;t mind sharing, what was your most successful restaurant? Not the name. But how much did you make on it? Means how quickly were you able to get your payback on the investment?<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Chef Khaled Albaker:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">I couldn&#8217;t tell you because I always reinvested. We never took money out of the business. So at the end of the day, I&#8217;m a salaried employee. We never took money out of the business. We have a vision where we want to reach. So we keep investing that money. Some of the restaurants have made a hundred times back what we invested initially. Ruby&#8217;s downtown has more than made enough for that outlet. But we never took anything out of it. It&#8217;s always reinvesting. Now I have two pop-ups this year. I&#8217;m opening a new concept.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">I&#8217;m opening another concept I&#8217;m working on. I have a breakfast menu I&#8217;m developing. All that money we make is going back into the business because we have a vision of where we want to be in two, three, four or five years. It&#8217;s not just one restaurant. We want an empire.<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">What is one company or one brand that you admire, that you aspire to be? Globally, Kuwaiti, Middle Eastern.<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Chef Khaled Albaker:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">There&#8217;s a company called Lab 100. They create some of the most amazing concepts.<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Lab 100?<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Chef Khaled Albaker:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">They have Ananas, they have Mana, they have Ubon, they have, what&#8217;s it called? But they&#8217;re brilliant. So when they do a concept, I think they do it right. The attention to detail they pay in their brands is amazing. And it reflects in their customers and their sales and their experience. These guys, I think, and there&#8217;s also Basel Assalam. He owns Gastronomuta.<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Legend.<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Chef Khaled Albaker:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">There&#8217;s no better way to describe him. These are people I look up to. I don&#8217;t need to go outside. They&#8217;re all local. And there&#8217;s many. I can give you a whole list.<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Chef Khaled, this was a fabulous conversation. And I think congratulations on a great journey. I can see&#8230;<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Chef Khaled Albaker:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Still on the journey.<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Still on the journey, but great journey so far. I feel that you&#8217;re not only a clear thinker, you also own a lot of what happens around your life. And that&#8217;s very, very empowering to listen to. So I&#8217;m sure people who are listening to this are going to get a lot of perspective.<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Chef Khaled Albaker:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">I can tell a cool story. And that&#8217;s what I like. I can tell a good story.<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">To tell a good story, we need to have a good story.<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Chef Khaled Albaker:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">I&#8217;m fortunate for that.<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Ashish Tulsian:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Fantastic.<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Chef Khaled Albaker:<\/b><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Thank you. I appreciate the time and thank you for having me.<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>[\/et_pb_tab][\/et_pb_tabs][et_pb_code _builder_version=&#8221;4.14.8&#8243; _module_preset=&#8221;default&#8221; global_colors_info=&#8221;{}&#8221; theme_builder_area=&#8221;post_content&#8221;][\/et_pb_code][\/et_pb_column][\/et_pb_row][\/et_pb_section][et_pb_section fb_built=&#8221;1&#8243; admin_label=&#8221;Blog&#8221; _builder_version=&#8221;4.14.8&#8243; background_enable_color=&#8221;off&#8221; use_background_color_gradient=&#8221;on&#8221; background_color_gradient_start=&#8221;#6b00b2&#8243; background_color_gradient_end=&#8221;#001e54&#8243; max_width=&#8221;100%&#8221; module_alignment=&#8221;right&#8221; custom_margin=&#8221;23px||0px||false|false&#8221; custom_padding=&#8221;50px||50px||true|false&#8221; top_divider_style=&#8221;mountains2&#8243; top_divider_color=&#8221;#FFFFFF&#8221; top_divider_height=&#8221;153px&#8221; top_divider_repeat=&#8221;2x&#8221; top_divider_height_tablet=&#8221;153px&#8221; 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They discuss craft, credibility, dining vs delivery, visible leadership, adapting through COVID, and why cash flow, detail, and human hospitality still matter most in restaurant growth. \u00a0 [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":2020,"parent":0,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_et_pb_use_builder":"on","_et_pb_old_content":"","_et_gb_content_width":"","footnotes":""},"class_list":["post-2014","page","type-page","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry"],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v26.6 - https:\/\/yoast.com\/wordpress\/plugins\/seo\/ -->\n<title>How Chef Khaled Albaker Built Ventri Group in Kuwait - Restrocast<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"Restrocast features Chef Khaled Albaker on restaurant growth in Kuwait, QR menus, hospitality, and the business of building brands.\" \/>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/restroworks.com\/restrocast\/chef-khaled-albaker\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"How Chef Khaled Albaker Built Ventri Group in Kuwait - 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