Ashish – Hey all. Welcome to Restrocast. Today, I’m with a very special guest, Mr.Tapan Vaidya. He’s the CEO of Papa Johns Pizza for UAE & KSA. Tapan’s entire journey is inspirational because it not only is just full of learnings,but it is full of transformation. Somebody who started at Taj, you know, back in India and then from hotel in the industry goes to do great things and building restaurant chains, multiple brands, multiple geographies, and eventually a few years back puts his own money and transforms into an entrepreneur for the business that he was already working as a business manager was a GM of a large business group who transforms into the CEO by investing his own money. There are a lot of areas of business in life that are that Tapan embodies which are worth emulating but I think what stood out for me was how he defines empathy and how he transformed for the people that he works with over the years. This and much more in this conversation. I’m sure you’ll enjoy it. Welcome Tapan to the Restrocast ! Thanks for taking your time and agreeing to do this.

 

Tapan – Thank you for having me.

 

Ashish – And, you know, I know that there’s a lot going on. You know, you told me that you guys, you know, how many, how many restaurants are you guys opening right now and you are definitely on a roll but I would like to actually go back and and talk to you about, you know, where it all started. So, you know, and there is this context to this because, you know, I’ve been a restaurateur myself and I fell into it. I never chose that. In fact, I believe that nobody in the right state of mind chooses to be in the restaurant space. There’s always some honey trap. Something that attracts them and then they get trapped and of course, they started enjoying it. Otherwise, it’s a very, very difficult space. You have to really love doing this 24*7. So I’m curious to know how it all started. Like, where did you grow up? Where did you graduate and what led you to this?

 

Tapan – So honey trap is, I think, a very good word and very well. I think it it applies to my evolution within, you know, this restaurant space. Well, so let’s talk about it but let’s start with so I was born in a family of academicians, mathematics mainly, but also educationists to the extent that when my father was studying in school, his mathematics textbooks were written by my grandfather. When I was in school, my mathematics textbooks were written by our father. So that’s what I’m really talking about and so expectedly, I chose mathematics and started doing my B.Sc in mathematics and realized, you know, as all teens are, you know, slightly older than teens realized that they need a little more cash than what they have.Enjoy life when in college in India. So the best way of doing it was to work outside of college hours and try and earn some money. So that’s how I had my first test. So I actually went around knocking at doors and when I knocked the door of a restaurant, they were interested. So I started working in the evenings, waiting tables. This is where the honey trap appeared in front of me. One was the food. I love food. So in the restaurant, you know, food is first honey trap but even bigger, a honey trap,

I think it happened when I realized that when you take great care of a customer, the reward is almost instant in the form of a tip, which was my whole motivation for getting into working really well. So then I just started excelling in everything I did for the customer. Make him so happy, so happy that he leaves, you know, double digit amount in those days. ₹10 tip was a big deal.

 

Forget about a ₹100 tip, forget a ₹500 tip and so but that was, these were my honey traps.

 

Ashish – What restaurant were you working at, you know.

 

Tapan – Okay, so I was in the St Xavier’s in Ahmedabad doing my B.Sc. Well, and there was this revolving restaurant, probably the only revolving restaurant at that point in time in Asia called Patang. On a pillar, the only standalone revolving restaurant on a pillar not as part of a hotel or subway. So I joined them. It was the top of the class in that city and it was from there that I fell in love with the work. I finished my B.Sc. I also did my business management from Narsee Monjee, but I never left the industry. I kept working for restaurants. Then I left from there and joined Taj in Bombay, where I did very well and then I came to the Middle East way back in ‘89.

 

Ashish – So so before that, so you were doing BSc mathematics and you were waiting tables for some extra cash and given your granddad and your dad, you know, they were academicians. What was their opinion or did they even know?

 

Tapan – So I must be very thankful to my father. He he did not oppose or he allowed me to do what I wanted for some and of course, he I’m sure he was not happy seeing his son waiting tables, but I think he was forward thinking enough and besides, he had done his Ph.D. from the US. So obviously he knew this side of things.

 

Ashish – And I’m sure that helped because.

 

Tapan – That must have helped.

 

Ashish – Yeah, because in India that’s a, that’s a tough call for like if you’re coming from a privileged background, it’s very difficult to convince parents to do yet actually any job during your academics, leave alone like waiting tables. That’s a taboo.

 

Tapan – True. It is. It definitely was but I was the fortunate one who was allowed to do these things and then that’s how I continued and then landed up to one day in what is today Ritz-Carlton in Oman, Al Bustan Palace Hotel. So I was there. Then I joined Pizza Hut. I was with Pizza Hut.

 

Ashish – This was what year? Like when did you come here?

 

Tapan – 89. I came to Al Bustan Palace in Muscat, then 91 was when I joined the Pizza Hut, continued. We also brought Taco Bell to Oman. Finally I was with, I joined Fuddruckers. If you know that chain, it’s a it was actually the first so-called casual dining brand to come out of the US to the Middle East in the early 90s.

 

Ashish –  And they all happened in Oman.

 

Tapan – Yes. First I was with them in Oman. So same company. We had Pizza Hut, Taco Bell, then Fuddruckers. I left them and joined Fuddruckers, the brand. So the brand was then seconded me to Jordan and Syria to do Fuddruckers there. Then the brand moved me to Bahrain what I was. After that there was an ownership change in the structure of the company, which is when I left Fuddruckers and joined Jawad Business Group in Bahrain to head their restaurant business, and that was quite a large portfolio of brands. Apart from Papa Johns, where I am now, we had Dairy Queen, Burger King, Chili’s, Outback Steakhouse, Thai Express, number of brands which allowed me the pleasure of working very hard and long hours open. We must have opened between 2001 and 2010 or nine when the recession kind of. We must have opened at least 200 plus restaurants in the region. 

 

Ashish – Across all these four or five brands.

 

Tapan – Exactly and there were more than 10-12 brands, which I, I don’t know. There was Quiznos. We had coming sidewalk Cafe. We had Maggiano’s, Romano’s Macaroni Grill, a number of just the but we had great teams to execute that pace of expansion and and basically wow customers on the show floor. So that’s what happened. Jawad had continued. Unfortunately, Jawad had had issues with the retail business and Jawad decided to exit the retail business in 2015 and Jawad had also divested the Papa Johns UAE business to Levant Capital. OC. In 2019 and acquired 100% of Papa Johns. That is when I made the move from Jawad out to Levant end to be the CEO of Papa Johns UAE with my own investment and since that point in time, we’ve done really well. We’ve been expanding. We’ve signed to Saudi Arabia now. We opened our first Saudi restaurant last year, August. We will complete a year of that. We have 15 there now and we are now looking at other markets in the region. I can’t wait to continue this growth. 

 

Ashish – I think great, great timing to be in Saudi as well. I think the way the Saudi’s

transforming the last couple of years, it’s quite it’s quite phenomenal.

 

Tapan – No, true. Saudi was always a big market, great potential, which because of these current changes, it just opened the market up so much.

 

Ashish – Yeah, I think, I think we are we are following Saudi market for the last like three years, three years back. We like we had a first crack in that market and in all honesty, we were not really I mean, we’re not really thinking that, okay, this is going to be the year the market will bring it into focus but I think once we’ve been there on the ground and and within one year, you felt, wow, like this change and then last two years, I saw the pace of change. I think I think pace of changes is just, you know, extremely encouraging. I think Saudi is going to be probably for all the right reasons, the largest, you know, bustling market in the entire Middle East. I want to actually go a little back in time again and you know, in the passing, you said that you joined Taj after your business management, right. So and you’re not a hotel management

graduate. Well, so so two questions. One, what happened from business management to Taj and two, it’s very hard for me to understand and imagine that in 89, what did Middle East look like? You know, apart from, of course, the opportunity on, you know, on money, what was it like? Like, it’s very different. My simplistic view is probably just the but but when you were at Taj what are you doing there and what led you to kind of fly out and see an opportunity in this part of the world. 

 

Tapan – Honey trap. So I think my role in the Taj in Bombay was that of a like a management trainee in the equivalent position at that point in time was catering assistant or you could say an assistant restaurant manager. That’s how I would define it. So that was my role but because I was a management training kind of a role, I was going from departments to departments. So I’m not sure if you’re familiar with Taj in Bombay. I was in Shamiyana, the coffee shop. Yeah, I was in room service for some time and some hilarious stories of serving customers from this part of the world in room service. For example, once I think he was a Saudi gentleman and he just wanted he had ordered some food and I was the one as a trainee. They always like to send you home, too. So I went and served him and he had a particular peculiar request. He wanted jasmine flowers in the room. I wonder what he wanted to do with them but he wanted those. I said, fine, okay. So I knew that back of the hotel you have these ladies going around selling those gajras.I went there. I came back and gave it to him. Then he handed me ten notes of ₹100. ₹1,000 tip just for getting a flower that cost me ₹20. So many such stories from those days. But so that was room service. Then I was in banquets where I learned the most because Taj in Bombay in those days. Now it must be even bigger. In those days we had 11 banquet

halls and so I would be running 3 to 4 events at the same time, running from one to the other,

managing F&B teams in each. So that’s what I think I learned the most. But it was also during that time that some people from what is the Ritz-Carlton now in Muscat, they were visiting Taj to interview, to recruit people in Bombay and they happened to see me in action at one of the functions and so they asked me if I would be interested. I said, I don’t know, let’s see,

I’ll come for an interview. So I went and they selected me. They made me an offer. Believe me, we are talking about pre Narasimha Rao India. You’re talking about pre so-called reforms of the 93.

 

Ashish – Oh so pre pre liberalization.

 

Tapan -Pre-liberalization, exactly pre of doing the Raj, days of Raj. So to speak. So what they offered me blew me off. It was about six times what I was getting in Taj and so I thought about it and I was talking, but I had not decided because, you know, you’ve been in India all your life, all 23 of my life back then. You’ve been in India and you really don’t know what is Muscat, Oman. You haven’t really heard of the country, Oman. So I was in two minds and then I was talking to my colleague one day and I told him, there is this opportunity. I’m thinking, but I’m in two minds. He said, What is it? So I told him exactly what was on offer. He said, Are you mad? Go take it, grab it. He could see so clearly that this is what you want. Go. So finally I took it and here I am. The sheer fact, the package size of the package we were offered just happened to be bigger. In local terms they were not big packages but when you convert to the Indian rupees it was. But then what happened was everything got even better and better at least it was perceived as better and better because when I came I think the rupee to Dirham, for example, today it’s 21. I think in those days it was like 3 and a half, 4. Yeah, but even then the pay was big and then when the rupee started sliding, people perceived that we kept just getting paid more and more. So that’s how it was back then.

 

Ashish – I didn’t know. Very interesting and then you spent how many years in Oman

before you you said you landed in Bahrain from Jawad, right?

 

Tapan – Correct. Yeah. So 9 years in Oman and then I was with Fuddruckers across Jordan, Syria, Bahrain, and then 18 years with Jawad and now 3 years.

 

Ashish – So by now, is it safe to ask, do you speak Arabic?

 

Tapan – So one thing I fortunately did was I learned how to write and read Arabic when I was in Oman and I was much younger then. So it was easy for me to absorb and learn so I can read and write Arabic, but I don’t speak it because not many speak. When I was in Jordan and Syria, my Arabic really got very good because people there just

 

Ashish – How can you read and write but you can’t speak? What do you mean by that?

 

Tapan – I can read and write because I can slowly read. I know the script but I don’t know the meaning of every word because I don’t speak a lot. I don’t know words a lot.

 

Ashish – So your vocabulary is still…

 

Tapan – Yeah, exactly. I can still get by, but at least knowing the script helps.

 

Ashish – Yeah, because the countries that you’re talking about then, like, you know, I mean, in today’s current day, UAE. I don’t think anybody needs that because it’s exactly too cosmo, you know, it’s, it’s a full global melting part. Right? Absolutely. And in Dubai you can get away with Hindi as well. So yeah. No, great. This is, this is quite phenomenal. So, so I have another question and I’m sure that’s a, you know, pertinent one, what led you to, you know, you talked about that, you know, Jawad group divested, you know, and, and Levant got a 100% of, you know, Papa Johns, and then you invested, you know, your money in it. What was that? And why was that?

 

Tapan – Well, it was really the product. I knew that I was investing in the product that Papa John sells more than the company itself. Of course I was investing in the company, but the product is good. I believed in the quality of that product. I believed in each ingredient that goes into making a pizza. I believed in the overall setup of the brand, the way the brand has been managed, the quality was always given maximum importance. So I believed in the whole proposition.

 

Ashish – But from a personal standpoint, was it that, you know, the getting on the entrepreneurial side where, you know, you have of, of course you have been owning the outcomes, you know, as managing and growing and expanding the business, but was it that leap or was it like, was it just of plain financial investment because you understand the opportunity quite clearly?

 

Tapan – It was pretty much all of the above. I understood, uh, the risks first, which is very important. You want to know what your risks are and then, uh, what your upside is likely to be. and, uh, it was an easy decision simply because I knew the brand. I knew the product inside out. I knew the business model inside out. I knew exactly how we were going to grow the UAE business and how we were going to acquire more markets and expand.So I, it was not a tough call to, uh, put all my life savings into this kitty.

 

Ashish – Did you put all your life savings in this?

 

Tapan – Pretty much. Pretty much

 

Ashish – Wow. That’s a, that’s a very, very big one because you know, even by, I mean, putting your money where the mouth is, it’s always tough. Right? It’s, it’s always a, it’s always a call which can make, you know, people think, but was how, what was your family’s reaction when you took the step like?

 

Tapan – I mean, see, the thing with our families is they always want to caution you. They, they. of course they mean, well, they always mean well, but the family always try to, Are you sure? But I was just sure. So I was cautious. I knew exactly what the risks are. I mean, the risk is what, the investment will go, that’s the risk and, and so one was, I was prepared, pretty much prepared. I am just because I knew the business inside out having started the first restaurant in the GCC, when in 2004, Papa Johns, the first one was in 2004 and when I left Jawad, I think we had a total of 120 odd or 130 odd Papa Johns in the region that we had built. So I knew the business and I knew the team I was joining in UAE because it was the same thing that worked for me. So I was confident.

 

Ashish – No, but I think, I think, the risks aligned with such an investment and I’m just, I think it’s partially a comment or partially a question is that the risk is not only about losing that money.

I think that’s a risk, which I understand that you, it was a calculated risk. You knew exactly what you’re getting into and you’re also the operator. So, so technically, you know, you are in more control, you know, of that investment, but I think, um, the bigger risk associated with such investment can also, isn’t it, the fact that you’re not going to get any returns or dividends in the short term and all of this, you know, is being done for like a payday where the private equity, you like all of you exit at the same time, you know, and, and get returns in like compounded way. And at times, you know, businesses, you know, go through this risk of being healthy, being great, but not having like the exit opportunity, like is, is that, is that how you also term the risk as or no?

 

Tapan – No, no, you’re right. You exactly described how it is going to pan out or at least I thought that’s how it would pan out, except for COVID. Overnight we lost half our store count. We had roughly 46 restaurants, I think at the time 46 or 47 at the time. Suddenly COVID came and the government shut down all the malls. Yeah. We are in malls, half our restaurants shut simply overnight. So yes. I mean, I had not provided for that risk, but fortunately, my team rose to the occasion. We immediately took stock. I have the first decision I made,and it was an important one. It really turned out to be a very good decision was that we will not let a single soul go to COVID. Wow. We will keep everyone. And, and the thing was the COVID situation would go eventually. People will come back. Restaurants will open, where will I find trained staff at that time? So we decided we are not going to let anyone go. And then we set about doing other things, right? So obviously restaurants which had closed, we tried and shifted trade area of those restaurants to other neighboring restaurants and to make sure that now a restaurant that would previously only drive X minutes to deliver a pizza will now drive 5 minutes. but we had to manage and,you know, we, we, without really breaking customer’s confidence in the brand, we managed to survive those 3-4 months and I’m even more proud to say that, the entire 2020, which was the most affected by COVID, we managed to pay every team member 100% of salaries without.

 

Ashish – Wow. So you are saying that even in the period, when you know COVID was at its peak and the uncertainty, rather, I would say, I’ll say that it was  at its peak. You were still retaining people at 100% salaries.

 

Tapan – No. So when I, when we made the decision of not letting anyone go,the only way to make that work was to reduce partly the salary. But what I’m saying is we made that up before the end of the year.Thats how we paid them.

 

Ashish: Wow. That’s commendable.

 

Tapan – So but, you know, our team deserves it. They are doing a great job.

 

Ashish – In your working style or your perception of your own responsibility of the work. Not, not saying that you are not, you know, you’re not feeling responsible enough before you’ve had a great, like, you know, great career, So I don’t think, you know, that’s, that’s even under question, but did something change inside you at a personal level in terms of responsibility and the hours that you started putting in, you know, post your investment and you taking over as a CEO, both the roles, actually an investor and the CEO both are like very important and, you know, crucial roles.

 

Tapan – See, there’s a change hopefully every day for the better, anything changed in me post 19. Not that I can pinpoint, but yes, I’m definitely a lot more responsible. Maybe I’m a little more consciously responsible now. I think, also I’m now I feel more accountable towards protecting my team’s future, growth prospects. So I think that is something that has come in post 19, where I am now. In fact,we had a reshuffle within the shareholders and as a result, we gave the opportunity to some key executives in my team to invest and I was surprised that as many as, almost a dozen of them were ready to invest their own hard earned money cash Into the company and they’ve done it.

 

Ashish – Do you allow outsiders as well? Let me know if anything opens. 

 

Tapan –  The ticket size is big, but I will let you know.

 

Ashish – Thank you for making me feel poor, but, but we will take that. 

 

Tapan – Yeah, No No. So, um, no, this was very important for, 

 

Ashish– But that’s amazing. Yeah. Not taking away from the point, right. That’s actually phenomenal.

 

Tapan – It is. So I mean, we actually have partners.

 

Ashish – So did they invest like you guys have?

 

Tapan – They’ve invested cash. So you have, you know, 12+ key executives in the team who have invested their cash.

 

Tapan – That’s right.

 

Ashish – Wow. That’s amazing. That’s a very, very big vote of confidence in your leadership, you know, and, and, and the company, and I think the brand, I will put it in that order, actually.

 

Tapan – Not truly. I was seriously pleasantly surprised when, and for these executives. It is a big amount. Ticket size is not small, so that for them to, you know, I’m sure some of them would say we’ve also invested our life savings in the company. But see, the thing is, you know, then the degree of conviction they have and just it’s just great for the brand and, you know, and I feel good for our customers that they are being served by our team who have put their money where their mouth is.

 

Ashish – No, that’s a big deal. Right. But I think, you know, one, one thing that I, why I asked you that question that was there a change, you know, post 19, because I, you know, do believe that, you know, once your, your money, your, your investment goes in something, you know, it starts bringing change in your attitude, even though you meant well before you had great intentions and you’re still working hard. You know, my own example is that, you know, I, when I started investing in tech startups, like 6 years back, you know, and I used to, advise or help or mentor, you know, whatever younger, you know, fellow entrepreneurs where I was just a little more, where I had more mistakes, you know, than them. But I do, I do see that change in that, you know, I meant well before, but then when I started advising or talking to entrepreneurs where I invested in the business, I did not really say my advice changed. I hope you know what I mean? Right, it didn’t change, but it, but yeah, I mean, I started feeling like very, very responsible. I was not responsible only for my money. I mean, my 1% was still insignificant than their 99, but I started feeling the responsibility for that 99 as well in the same tone.

 

Tapan – No, no. True and these are normal evolutionary changes that always creep in when your so-called status changes and even behaviorally, I would say that there have been some changes that I’ve experienced in me. I’ll give an example, certain things, certain mistakes, or, you know, pilferage, or these kind of things that employees commit in restaurants typically. Yeah, my attitude, not my attitude, but my reaction or my sensitivity yeah was always  that ,that’s it out ! That, we just cannot carry an employee who could do this. I think post 19, I’ve started seeing things a little different. I, not that I never believed in second chance. I believe in second chances but now I think I’ve started practicing that, that, you know, unless you give the second chance, you will never know whether the second chance is really good for this employee or not. So that has now come into my repertoire of styles that,

 

Ashish – But that’s very interesting. Why, so, like what, what’s your, like what realization or what, like, why, why reverse actually, honestly, I would’ve imagined it reverse.

 

Tapan – No. So, see that’s, that’s how the restaurant business is this when you are dealing with 100s of restaurants and therefore, you know, a few thousand employees, you want to set. Your policies tight. You want to make sure that, you know, standards are held high and those in breach think 5 times before breaching and so you do that, but then with, as you realize that, yeah, you want to do that, but in the process, someone who could have really gotten better, who could have really become a great asset for the company, you just clipped his wings in the, but, and you are essentially not only depriving him of a good career, you are depriving the company of a talented employee, and this is what I’ve realized over time. So maybe it has nothing to do with 19 or the investment. Maybe it’s got something new with just evolutionary thinking or behavior. But I now look at it this way, depending on obviously the severity of the breach or violation, but so now I’ve started definitely, understanding. Okay. Why? And, and what if, and I think we have a few colleagues in the company who are doing very well today, thanks to the second chance. So-called second chance.

 

Ashish – Has that empathy that you developed or you, I think this is what heightened has that, you know, has that rolled in some other aspect of the business as well? Like this one example, is there another one where similar empathy or you find the root of the empathy at the same place? 

 

Tapan – So I’ve always believed, and this is how it really is. According to me, the higher you are in the tree, the longer you probably can see and so, and it just. This just manifests itself in almost every interaction you have with everyone and so it, whenever I interact with any member of the organization structure,you realize this thing to be true and that is how I tell myself no, fine. He is where he is, and this is his viewpoint and either I show him what I am able to see and convince him, or I buy his story and move on.

 

Ashish – Wow, so basically you’re just saying that now that you can see farther or longer. Your belief is that if somebody’s committing, you know, violating the policy or committing like a small theft here and there, or committing pilferage, they basically are doing it like as a short term gain or whatever is occurring to them in the moment.

 

Tapan: Correct. But it’s not just limited to any behavior, any opinion or any comment they make, there is a logic to it and this is a big thing in that logic.

 

Ashish: No, I, I that’s, that’s actually quite, that’s amazing actually. Yeah, because I think the point you made about lending that vision and, and digging deeper into what is that short term gain gratification or short term ignorance that somebody’s committing that with.

 

Tapan : There’s one more thing that I’ve introduced, but that I have consciously introduced. It’s not an, you know, subconscious development. So I make it a, now that I think about it, a couple of things I do. One is that I meet every new joiner for half an hour. Every new joiner, every, every without fail, 

 

Aashish: We will go to what grade? Every?

 

TV: Everyone, everyone who joins the company, I meet them for half an hour on the day of their joining.

 

Aashish: How many? You know, people do you have today?

 

Tapan – We have more than a 1000 and I’m, I’m talking about Saudi here everywhere. So if it’s Saudi, obviously I can’t meet them on their day of joining, but I do that via teams call and so obviously now I prefer that our HR teams bring them in a group on day one. So I’d rather 12-15 join on day one so I can meet them in one shot. 

 

Ashish– All right. Okay. 

.

Tapan – But I meet them and I spend half an hour. Apart from introductions. I explain to them, what is our vision? What is our mission? And I take them through each company value. I explain to them each value, what it really means, how you will, how you’re expected to practice these values. Then I take them through my own list of what not to practice and just, I make them feel welcome and wish them all the best and this I do with every new joiner. So they, in a way, hear from the horse’s mouth, exactly what our values are, what our vision is and how we are going to achieve this vision and that the values are to be practiced, not just by them, but everyone including me. So they get that. 

 

Ashish – So as a leader,you have this. I mean, privilege to choose your people who you work with partially,like to a great extent, or at least on a day, on a day to day basis, you can, you can, you have full choice whether to engage with somebody or not And you kind of get this power to choose who you are, right. It often leads to an eco chamber, you know, around you as well. You know, you, all you hear is, you know, you start gelling with people. I’m not even talking about just having yes. Men around. I’m talking about like, even having smart people, but they who align with the world view And like how do you challenge yourself? Or have you like, do you feel that it’s, you know, developing yourself as a leader, you need a contrarian view to ponder upon. Which challenges your, you know, 30, 40 years of, you know,work life experiences, some of these solidified principles, which also can be hurdles to your, you know, own development. Do you feel that? And if you feel that, like, do you practice some sort of like, like, do you bring some practice in where you can keep challenging this and see if there is a,

 

Tapan – So there’s a quote I like very much, it’s better to have no man around you rather than have yes man around you. So, while the quote is pointing in a different direction, but no. So we want people to contribute. That’s the message to the team. When we are having a meeting, we want you to come prepared and contribute, and everyone knows about this quote. I keep saying, I’d rather have a woman than yes:  I mean, that’s not what the meaning is but having said that we have excellent, lady employees and they are the best. They are outstanding and committed. In fact, if I go back, there’s an award we have, the Tapan Vaidya award of excellence to, you know. Yeah. So last year, our head of training Rubirosa, she won that. So we have outstanding female employees and, uh, making tremendous progress. But so the culture in the company that we are trying to build, not trying to build it has, it is prevalent now and I want to make sure it’ll keep growing, is that everyone must come to the table with their own opinion and comment. 

 

Ashish – No, actually, I’m sorry, but if I, if I did not phrase it right, I didn’t mean it from the company perspective, by the way. Right. When I, when I said that you have the power, you choose the people I meant, I meant in the world as well. Right. So what I mean is that as a leader, you know, are you trying to like, how do you, do you practice this? Or is there a way, or do you even feel that okay, after a point it becomes an echo chamber because you know, with your professional age, like, you know, you, you create a circle and you also start gelling well with people who are also of your worldview. So, you know, how do you develop yourself as a leader?

 

Tapan – I think the best two top tools that can really allow you to continue as a leader and probably help you grow as a leader, are listen. You’ve got to listen and second, you’ve got to maintain your own discipline. If you do these two things, of course, there are many other things you can do and you should do but listening, I think, is key to remaining a good leader. If you don’t listen, you’ve stopped all your inputs. That is going to probably help you. First of all, obviously you want to surround yourself with good people. You know, even if you are the dumbest guy in the room, that’s fine. That’ll be a great effect. That’ll be a great thing. Yeah, that would be outstanding but so still you want to listen to your head of I.T because he knows what he’s doing. You ought to listen to your head of marketing your CMO because he knows what he’s saying and want all you want to listen to your CFO because he’s going to keep the cash flowing. So, you know, so I think this is how you’ve got to listen and understand and then make your decision, in fact. So I believe my leadership is a blend of democratic style, of autocratic style at times and laissez faire at times. So I would say if I just look at the last 2-3-4 years, I would say I have been a Democratic leader, maybe for 90% of the time.Maybe 90.

 

Ashish – Nine zero. Isn’t that too much democracy?

 

Tapan – No, no, I think Democracy is always good. Uh, it should be 100% really but that’s not always possible.

 

Ashish – As a leader at times, you know, you know, the opinion of a group and it’s, it has nothing to do with the individual smartness of the group. But the, but the combined IQ of the mob is lower than the IQ of the, the, the lowest IQ person.

 

Tapan –  So, so that’s fine and then the guy with the hierarchy may command higher rates of voting but it’s still democratic. So but no, but. But the remaining part, I would say that maybe 7-8% would be laissez faire where I don’t need to interfere but there are times when you have to step in and so this is it and yeah, yeah. So that’s how I would define my leadership. 

 

Ashish – So, and, and do you nurture your brain? Do you also listen to podcasts, or read books or more books than podcast?

 

Tapan – More books than podcasts

 

Ashish – So what’s, what’s a book that you’re reading right now. You have read in recent times that impacted you 

 

Tapan – So let me take you through a journey of the kind of books I have read. So in when I was when I was a child, I think I started, my favorite was Jules Verne. So around the world in 80 days, 20,000 leagues, Under the sea, Voyage to the moon and so on and forth. I mean, simply because adventure travel, that was lovely and that fueled in me a desire to travel the world. In fact, I dreamt back then that I will try and visit 100 countries, at least in my lifetime. Although at that time I didn’t know how many countries in the world but now having become an adult I realized that it’s just a tall order but I’ve been fortunate to have the I’m in my 40s right now. So I’m not, and I think the pace of travel now that COVID is behind will only get stronger and hopefully I will tick off the 100th one day, but no. So that was Jules Verne then I will mention Arthur Hailey as someone who really made an impact on me because all his books that I read and I think I read them all. Airport, hotel,wheels, strong medicine, see Arthur Haley studied that topic intricately and all his books were like a PhD  thesis on that business and it just impressed me so much that I always kept waiting for the next Arthur Hailey that I read and then I also felt that when I take up a project or anything I take up, I must do color research and understand origins before undertaking.

 

Ashish – Which Arthur Hailey book will  you really recommend the most, like for me? I would love to read one.

 

Tapan – Oh, then I, you should read Hotel because you were a restaurateur once, I mean, you still are in your heart. Maybe so hotel would be the closest and it’s nice and, and when I was reading that I was already working hotel, so I was really surprised how.He would know such intricate details of what goes on inside a hotel, but obviously he had done his homework, but yeah, it’s, it’s a, but the only difference now is that today’s hotels are very different from hotels of the 70s. I think this book was probably written in the 70s but I’m sure it’ll make for a very good reading. After that, I’ll talk about My experiments with truth from Mahatma Gandhi. It was a profound and tremendous impact it generated but the recent one that I finished was Promised land by Barack Obama, an outstanding book. I mean, he, you get to see the world from, uh, the president himself, his eyes And during his presidential years.

 

Ashish – So anything that stood out for you?

 

Tapan – Yeah, in fact, I made some notes. 

 

Ashish– Oh wow. We would love to, can you read that for us? 

 

Tapan -Yeah, sure. I’ve written something down. So it’s a riveting, deeply personal account of history in the making from the President who inspired us to believe in the power of democracy. Then, the starring highly anticipated first volume of his presidential memoirs. Barack tells the story of his improbable odyssey from young men searching for his identity to leader of the free world. Then I also think that the author takes readers on a compelling journey from his earliest political aspirations to the pivotal Iowa caucus victory that demonstrated the power of grassroots

activism to the watershed night of November four, 2008, when he became the first African American. I mean, that was a huge moment for America. Yeah and also all the singular insights into the dynamics of U.S. sports and politics, international diplomacy Obama brings readers inside the Oval Office and the White House Situation Room. He takes them to Moscow, to Cairo, Beijing and points beyond. We are privy to his thoughts as he assembles his cabinet, wrestles with the global financial crisis. It was him, I think, who pulled General Motiff, etc., out of the doldrums. The Affordable Care Act. He clashed with his own generals about Afghanistan, the policies, and not only that, he authorized Operation Neptune Spear, which led to the death of Osama bin Laden. All and so all of this made serious reading for me and this beautifully written and powerful book captures Obama’s conviction that democracy is not a gift from high above, but it is something founded on empathy and common understanding and built together into a very super book.

 

Ashish – Wow ok. So, but do you, do you also read these and have been, have, have you been reading these memoirs or biographies of leaders or this is like, this is like the one that just? 

 

Tapan –  No. So another biography that made, uh, strong impact on me, but I was more impressionable, I guess then it was a Charlie Chaplin. I read his biography in the 90s, I think and that was huge for me because although the world knows him as just a comedian or an actor, he was a lot more than that. He was a lot more and he had some seriously humble beginnings too. So, the story of his life was fantastic. No, but I’m not heavily into reading biographics only, but, when it counts, yes.

 

Ashish – So, you know, quick 2, you know, points, if you wanna touch upon, you know, given that in the market, COVID is hopefully past us and we have other problems like war and recession looming over and I think people are looking at that, but I think from a, from the business as usual aggregators have played like a great role, you know, in, you know, kind of 

 

Tapan – Many restaurants would not agree, but yes . 

 

Ashish–  Yeah. Yeah. So I’ll come to that, right. So I’m saying aggregates on one side have played a great role in kind of, you know, changing the dynamics and, you know, making food more, you know, you’re more reachable and, you know, you know, to your customers and vice versa, but at the same time, they’ve done like a pretty bad job when it comes to the bottom line, health, overall economics of serving food, you know, for, for almost every kind of restaurant and, and more often than one would appreciate and expect restaurateurs restaurant associations, individual brand have been at loggerhead with, you know, aggregators while both are technically fighting for the, you know, end consumer in, in, in their own way. What’s your state of mind and opinion today? How are you looking at, you know, aggregator as a boon or a bane, but not in that binary, like what’s the gray of this today, according to you?

 

Tapan – Okay. So life was great before aggregators came no, no, I’m, I’m just trying to make light of all this. So a restaurant manager, his job was to make sure food is prepared, right? Made sure that the food is served right. That the customer enjoys the experience and leaves a restaurant. This was pretty much the job in the 80s-90s  even at the start of the decade.I’m a millennium. A lot of things have changed for the restaurant manager per se. So right now the restaurant manager struggles with customers, dining customers coming to take away and all the multiple tablets that the manager has to manage. That’s one thing,that’s from a restaurant manager’s perspective, but as far as aggregators are concerned, my view is they are there.They have a business model to defend and they are providing, and they are acquiring customers. They have acquired customers and that’s what it is. The only way for restaurants now is to work with them, work with them in such a way that you protect your margins. Negotiate as hard as possible with them but work with them because if you are not on that platform, you are obviously going to lose out.

 

Ashish –  I think the last one on this and in the same tune and probably, you know, a little more expanded view of, you know, DRG recently became UAERG, it became a federal entity and I think, you know, I personally look at, you know, our customers in 50+ countries and like, there are 18 countries where we, you know, directly, you know, work with customers on ground, have never seen any restaurant association getting a seat on the table, respectfully with any government I’m talking about any country, actually, because you know, the associations generally get together and lobby for, you know, either the smaller cause or the bigger cause, but it is serving, you know, interests of some that’s how, that’s, how it works. How do you look at this? How do you see? I, I see this as a great step, but what’s your outlook on, you know, UAE becoming UAERG and what is it that you are, you know, expecting to happen in the region now?

 

Tapan – So a slight correction in that, while it has grown from being Dubai centric to UAE centric, UAERG is still associated with the chamber of commerce. So it is not exactly politically driven or governed. So there is no direct political affiliation yet and I don’t think there will be because that’s how the policies are in an open economy. So UAERG will remain free of the government of UAE, but it is rather attached to. Earlier it was the Dubai chamber of commerce. Now it’s the UAE chamber of commerce. So it’s become federal in that sense but it’s great because I mean, the first thing is in this part of the world, we, the industry never had a voice to start with and with DRG, we had voice and now with UAERG the voice has become even bigger and in fact we are doing some great work within UAERG and our members, those who are members, Papa Johns is a member of UAERG I’m on the advisory board. Yeah. So members are benefiting by being members and I would recommend all the restaurant operators in UAE to become member, have a voice in what goes on and lobby the industry because this industry is important with the kind of tourism related arrivals expected and how tourism is going to drive the economy. I think our industry is really all set for the next phase of growth.

 

Ashish – But I’m sure I think it’s also a great bonding mechanism for restauranteurs, especially in Dubai and UAE overall, because, you know, one thing which is really different, which I see in Dubai, in Singapore in more cosmo, more like few centers cosmo, more financial centers in the world is that is that so many nationalities actually start working together that while, you know, one believes that they are mingling, they’re not they’re coexisting and and they are coexisting in their own silos. So and there is there’s so many invisible cultural nuances and barriers, you know, which, you know, most of the names that don’t come on the same page. So I think in that sense, UAERG is kind of a very, you know, great leveler for everybody to, you know, kind of have the opinion for the same cause. While you may be a Russian restaurant or a Thai restaurant or a Japanese or an Indian or an American.

 

Tapan – No, absolutely. You are , you hit the nail on the head, I think UAERG Is that not only that, even at the board level, UAERG has members from across the sections of society and so even the board in the advisory board is a melting pot in a way. and yes and we are working hard to see that the membership also grows in the same direction.

 

Ashish – Perfect, sir. Thank you and you know, any, any, you know, signing of words for,you know, for, for restaurateurs aspirants, you know, aspiring entrepreneurs in hospitality space and all kinds of stakeholders in hospitality who will be watching this. Any, any signing of note from your journey so far, you know, to them?

 

Tapan –  I think, to all entrepreneurs who are trying to get into the restaurant business. I think the one thing they must keep in mind is, in our days we used to say food is the most important thing and now it’s not only food, which is the most important thing and now it’s not only food which is the most important thing. So many other things are important, but food still remains the most important thing and what I would further say is that when you price your food, do not under price. Do not, of course you don’t want to over price yourselves and, you know, get thrown away from the competition, but do not underprice, it just gets too hard. 

 

Ashish – Yeah, I think bottom line is going to be the guard is an order of the day. Restaurants used to be top line, high margin businesses back in the day and I think that the bottom line shrinking, you don’t really want to dabble on the wrong side.  You know, things and then, you know, reduce your quality because you did not price it right.

 

Tapan – Right. True.

 

Ashish – Perfect sir,Tapan thank you. This was extremely enriching for me to not only know your journey. I think the evolution elements actually are personally a lot of learning and stuff to ponder upon for me as well. I wish you all the best in the Papa Johns journey for 75-200 and beyond and I’m sure you know that with the kind of investment that you and your key executives brought on board, I think there’s no looking back. It’s only going to go bigger. So thank you for being on the Restrocast and wish you all the best for the journey ahead.

 

Tapan – Thank you for having me.

 

Ashsih – Thank you and all the best.