Ashish Tulsian

Hi. Welcome to Retrocast today. Our guest is Prashant Menon, Regional Director, Pizza Express. Prashant’s journey I while talking to him I almost felt like it was it was a script of a movie where I think hero also discovers later in the movie that he’s the hero from almost practicing medicine to joining hotel industry to eventually becoming an F and B manager. From, you know, caring for comfort his family to eloping to marry for love and from, you know, in a world where there is a chase for top line and EBITDA to somebody who had the vision to care for people and their longevity in the business. I saw Prashant’s story as one of grit, perseverance and a relentless effort to follow the vision. It was a great conversation and even a better story. Watch. Welcome to Restrocast. Prashant, welcome to Restrocast.

Prashanth Menon

Thank you. Pleasure coming. And thank you for inviting me and giving you this opportunity.

Ashish Tulsian

Prashant, why don’t we start with you telling us what is it that you do today? What’s your what’s your day job now?

Prashanth Menon

OK, I’m I’m the regional director for Pizza Express for the MENA region, I manage the entire business for the UAE and also be a hub support for the MENA region in terms of expansion of the restaurant. So that’s what.

Ashish Tulsian

So so what all markets do you cover in that?

Prashanth Menon

When I talk of MENA, it includes India, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, Lebanon, Sri Lanka, the whole the whole MENA region.

Ashish Tulsian

How many markets in total?

Prashanth Menon

14. 14 markets in total. But having said that, we are currently presently only in four of these markets. So the next year future plan is to go into these markets and open up more Pizza Express.

Ashish Tulsian

So you have a lot to look forward to.

Prashanth Menon

Absolutely. So they’re looking at franchising model or as an equity investing as well. So you’re looking at different platforms. So this is what.

Ashish Tulsian

So Prashant, we’ll you know, we’ll dive deeper into how this happened. How did you come to a point where you’re responsible for 14 markets of Pizza express but I want to take you back to where it all started. Tell me a little bit about, you know, where did you grow up and how were the early years?

Prashanth Menon

OK, I’m very much from India, born and brought up in India. Parents are from Kerala. So, Dad, when he was 19, he moved to Chennai. He was working for Buckingham and Canadian Mills, which was Binny, as you call it. So pretty much my studies were in Chennai. Roots were originally from Kerala, so we speak Malayalam and Tamil. Born and brought up in in Chennai. And so I think from in Chennai it is all about South Indians, very orthodox community. So we are coming from a very middle class family Dad was from a basic junior engineer and he became a foreman. So we were all pretty much in that colony circle he brought up in the very South Indian dominant Brahmin society and that’s how we all grew, even though we had the roots of Kerala and food. So studied in Padmashadri, I mean, all the children must study in a CBSE school. So my parents told me that whole if you have to be successful, you have to study in CBSE school. So I studied in Chinmaya Vidyalaya till about ten standard. And then it became to a point that, you know what, if you have to go into engineering, you have to have better grades. So my parents decided that OK, you should be going in for matriculation because I was not good in studies, to be honest. 10th standard was not good. I’m not a maths person inside, not so good marks in math. So obviously has shifted from Central board syllabus to matriculation and studied.

Ashish Tulsian

Matriculation means like state board?

Prashanth Menon

State board. Exactly. So in Chennai at that time, I’m talking this in the eighties. So you had CBSE, you had matriculation, you had Anglo-Indian Matriculation, and any other state board. So state board was pretty much the Tamilnadu government and matriculation was one step ahead. So I studied in matriculation. I took science as my major. And at that time, every middle class family’s dream, and especially for my parents’ dream was science, either I have to be an engineer or a doctor.

Ashish Tulsian

And you were in a Tambaram circle, so I would assume that.

Prashanth Menon

So that was actually drilled in my head. And the thing was, my sister was brilliant in studies, right? She was a topper in school. She studied CBSE throughought she became the all India University topper in economics. So she actually raised the bar within the family and I was the other person. So you know how it is, it was just the two of us. So all the eyes were on Prashant, what are you going to be doing and then I went back and I said, Maths is not my subject. I’m going to take pure science. And so they prepped me. They kind of guided me to do medicine. So from 11th and 12th I did science, pure science, and I love science, I love the subject science, specifically biology and zoology. But my favorite subjects, chemistry was not my cup of tea. So I put a lot of thought and said, You know what, let’s become a doctor. This is where I want to see myself. So let’s prepare for this. Very, very enthusiastic in 11th studies was good 12th was good. But then you realize that when you are in 12 standard, even though you have a cut cutoff mark, being a forward community, your reach into medicine is still more ahead because even though you have 91% on the 91%, you have a million people standing there like you. And I didn’t get my chance to get into a state government quota where medicine was something which was going.

Ashish Tulsian

Also, was it an induced ambition because of these surroundings or it was?

Prashanth Menon

I would say yes, it was because you know, the place that, the colony that I’m coming from, as it’s called, if you were staying Ashok Nagar, and Ashok Nagar is a very, Ashok Nagar, Mamblam, Maylapur if you go and ask, are very Brahmin dominated community. And it’s there in the culture, I wouldn’t say we are all brought up in that that you have to study well, you have to do well. You have to go for tuitions.

Ashish Tulsian

You know, I have a lot of I have Tambaram friends. Yeah I know that girls have to go in medical, boys have to go into engineering.

Prashanth Menon

You know, so we had in our colony probably in my age group there around 30, 40 of them and we had 40 flats and every member knew everybody in that house. So that was a close knitted second family, I would say not even family or relatives in Kerala it was more about my house and the family within the colony and that’s how we grew up. It was brilliant. And so yeah, there were a lot of guys who did well, went to IIT, BITS Palani, REC Trichy my friends some of them got into engineering and I did not get into medicine so I said you know what, this is not something which I’m going to look for. And my parents said that, you know what, Prashanth? Don’t worry about it. My dad was always with my side. Dad said see, you know what? What you need to do do go ahead. If you want to do medicine, you can try and attempt next year as well. So you could study. So he said, why don’t you study BSc Zoology, you like zoology as a subject? So I got an admission into Madras Christian college in Tambaram, and started BSc zoology as my subject. I went to college. I said, this is not something that I want. And then, I don’t know, it was it was more about I felt like wasting time because you saw your friends already doing things that you wanted to do. And I felt like, yeah, I’d be doing zoology, but I’m also doing medicine. So I was very undecided and that’s when myy cousin, that’s my father’s younger brother, we were Cousins, and he’s from Bangalore. I met and met him in Bangalore for a holiday, during the first semester break. He he was working. I mean, he was working for a hotel as a part time, and he had completed a hotel management from IIHM Bangalore. I knew that he did hotel management, but I didn’t know much about it. So when I met him, he took me to this hotel in in Bangalore and he started telling me about how this industry is and how this works and stuff. And he took me to their college, IIHM Bangalore. I went to the college and I saw I saw the chefs and the chef coat and I saw the practical class of F&B. And I went back and said, This is something that I want to do, without a lie. I mean, I didn’t know what the industry was. And I came back. I didn’t tell this to my parents. And I was I was just a bit afraid. And then I did my AIIMS exams. I did my all India medical entrance. I gave the only medical entrance exam, and I came and that was done. And second half of the year I was not interested going for classes. I was not having attendance going around with friends.

Ashish Tulsian

So you still didn’t ask your parents?

Prashanth Menon

So I started to find out about IIHM, what the entrance is because IIHM also had an entrance exam. And that time in the eighties, nobody knew what hotel management was. There was only two colleges. There was one which is IIHM, which is a common exam that you have to enter. And then the second was a private college, which is ASAN Memorial Catering College, which was six kilometers away from me, which is further down. Now it’s called Vellacheri, and it’s developed a lot. So there was only these these are the only two colleges in Chennai that I knew of, and I didn’t have any friends to ask advice from the only friend, our only friend hours later I had was my cousin. He said Prashanth go for it. But it’s not as easy as you said. And I love the soup, I love this kitchen. And this is what I wanted to do.

Ashish Tulsian

And you are also having your moment of Abba nahi maanenge(Dad will not agree).

Prashanth Menon

Yes, exactly. Right. True. So I came back and I told my dad, when dad saw my results in college semester. That I failed in a few of the first semester years. He asked What’s happening? I said, Dad, Dad, I’m not interested. This is not something that I want to do. I would like to do something different. This is the first semester has gone, 3 months.

Ashish Tulsian

And I also think Zoology and medicine are quite hardcore for somebody who is not feeling interested. It’s like it’s not something you can just do.

Prashanth Menon

If I had got better marks and if I got medicine, my medicine would have been good, You know what? Let’s go home. Because in zoology practical? Right? I was the topper in school, like, literally in practicals I was only one of 100 on 100 and I remember teachers would say if you have doubts, go and ask Prashanth. So dissecting of a rat to a cockroach, getting out the brain, putting it in the I was brilliant in it. But when you knew that you didn’t get an attempt and you know it’s going to be a tough run, I tried and gave up on that. So that’s what happened, actually. So then hotel management came into the picture. I said, OK, I call my dad, I said, This is what I want to do. And he said, OK, but you’re losing a year this, is there an opportunity for you to go now? I said, Yeah, I’ve already found out with my friends, but do you know anybody in ASAN memorial that you can help me to get into this private college. So he knew a friend and then we went and met the principal of ASAN Memorial School. And we we discussed the saying that my son is interested in hotel management. He would like to join. He said, Why not? This is an industry that’s open for all anyone can join and it’s a diploma. It is not even a degree So hotel management was considered as a diploma three year course. So my father, after we came back he said Prashant it’s a diploma course, it’s not going to take you anywhere. So why don’t you do degree correspondence and do this as a mainstream? He advised me. I said OK Let’s talk about diploma separately and degrees separate. I’ll do the degree as I study, but this is what I want to do. The fees were really high at the time. I think it was around ₹12,000 first semester. It is a big for dad to organize that money. He had to go back, take his gratuity and he get the admission. I started school and there was a big fight at home. My mom was not up to it, she said, because in the colony, everybody knew Prashanth is studying hotel management. So at that point the image is, if you don’t study you will do hotel management. That’s the image that was there, believe me or not. So people are going for engineering with you know the I don’t know what they call the compass or the gadgets, the drafter. Then we had my sister’s classmate. She was my neighbor. She was studying in Kilpauk Medical College, no Stanley medical college. She had a white doctor’s court they were wearing. And my mom saw there’s no books. I had ladles, chef cap hat, housekeeping aprons, knife and a Thangam E Phillip book on cookery. My mom was like flipped this is not what I want my son to do. And it is true. Neighbors did have that impression to tell like, see, if you don’t study, you’ll be like Prashanth. You will get into hotel management, that was a chill. But I for me, it was like I found like, you know what? I’m the only one who was doing hotel management among all of you. But my own friends said Prashanth that’s brilliant man. Wow it’s so good you’re doing Hotel management. That actually motivated me. So mom, at one point you won’t believe went to the gas stove because she’s from a very orthodox family. I mean she’s never stepped out of home. It was always like that. They were brought up like that for the fact that mom didn’t even have a slipper to Go out. So she was always a housewife, you know, it was like that. So that’s how that culture was. It was very joint families, A mom did everything for the family after marriage. She got married when she was really young. There was a big difference between mom and dad. Dad had very late marriage and stuff like that. So, yeah, so she at one point went to the gas stove and said, you know what, Prashanth if you’re going to study this, never mind about the money and it’s you or me. It’s that. That’s the scenario. That’s is that’s the scenario.

Ashish Tulsian

What I think the social acceptance is a problem.

Prashanth Menon

It’s very true because people at that time they always thought it was only if you have to be successful your children has to do this otherwise they’ll be failures in life. They’re never going to succeed. That is all it is a fact it was in the eighties that’s how that’s how the whole place was. I mean, you know.

Ashish Tulsian

I think I think even even I can I can relate to it. I mean, not what you’re telling me is like that’s that’s that’s hardcore. That’s the next level. Right. But I can relate to it in a way like at some plane, for example, back in, you know, up until ten years back or even I until I think up until six years back, probably entrepreneurship was looked at that way. You know, I started back in 2005. And I can tell you that, you know, once I, I was still in engineering but I started the company while I was in engineering. And these are not the cool startup days. People never used to hear about young people starting companies technology was still, you know, you know, coming up so so business meant heavy CAPEX, factory, some industry, right? Yeah. So, so this guy I met, he asked me so what’s up when when are you I mean, he was dad’s friend and he was like, so when are you graduating? I’m gathering six months from now. So perfect. So where did you the you know, what’s the placement? I said, until I started my own software company and instead of saying wow, he said, oh. So you didn’t get a job. So I said, no. He said, keep trying, keep trying and let me know if you need help. My son is in Infosys. It’s like wow. Yeah.

Prashanth Menon

No, I mean, you’ll you’ll find that. But I think I think this is why for me, my dad was dad is everything. I mean, more than that, he is he’s like, he’s like a mentor godfather. I mean, I wouldn’t I would worship my dad. I guess a dad was the best person to bring that together with mom and make mom understand And I understand where mom was coming from because as I told you, she’s never seen the outside world. She hardly studied the third standard fourth standard. So her whole world is her children should study well and make sure that I get into the right place. And when it was difficult for her to understand this hotel management, they never knew what it was. So dad was one way very supportive and he was the one who actually, you know, bridged mom and brought that peace into it saying that we should be encouraging him to do what he wants to do. So that’s that that’s that was amazing. So I enjoyed I went as a year one in college, just brilliant. I mean, college was full of different specific subjects that you really enjoyed, which you never in doubt about. French to hotel science, to housekeeping, front office, everything. So you, you, you you go through that stream. And as we finish the second half of the year, I got a letter from Kilpauk Medical College. So what happens is those days there are people who do engineering and apply for medicine, both, who have taken math and science. So they will apply for both. And there’ll be a lot of people who dropped out of engineering or dropped out of medicine. So when they drop out of medicine, there is a waiting list of people from AIIMS so AIIMS entrance exam is basically purely on your entrance exam. It doesn’t do anything with your academics. So on second list, I got a letter from Kilpauk Medical College saying that pay 1900 rupees to the dean and you can join your medicine on the following year.

Ashish Tulsian

Because you were on that list.

Prashanth Menon

Yeah so I was on the wait list and I moved up.

Prashanth Menon

So you got one Hotel management and you paid ten grand and you are enjoying what you are  doing And then you get this letter from Kilpauk Medical College that you want to do. So everybody was like oh Prashanth’s going to medical college and at one point I had like six days a week basically to go and meet the dean and give the original school documents and stuff. I told dad no I do not want to do medicine that’s going to take five years And again, that is not  what I want to do. Again, another speech at home you know, relatives, neighbors, everybody is like, something’s wrong with this guy. You know, at one point they said, Menon’s son, they always called me that. Something’s wrong with Menon’s son, he’s got his medicine and whatever it is, he’s blessed, God has blessed him to give him medicine. And he is Going back and saying that he wants to do a hotel management but I think dad again, you know, at that point of time, my maturity level was very different. I had at one point I thought Prashanth am  I taking the wrong decision in life? And there was nobody to coach you at that time. Right. Everybody’s only telling you, go and do medicine, do this. But nobody was giving me a hand. But my instinct said, you know what, I like what I’m doing. I want to do hotel management, I didn’t want to go for medicine, I told my dad. So, you know, he said don’t worry about that. You do what you have to do. I went I was always I was always that, you know, this guy what’s he doing? And so for two years, it went on. And after that hotel management was something where I think from ASAN Memorial experience, you learn you learn about one thing. What I what I see from college, which I learned on from school, is in hotel management, they teach you about not more on academics, it’s more on practical. When you do, especially in a second year, you are exposed to hotels and that’s when you see reality OK? And after my second year, we had 86 of us in our batch one when we came back after industrial exposure training and year three we were half the size people left the industry people left.

Ashish Tulsian

Because they could not go through with it?

Prashanth Menon

So when you when you finish your second year and when you in your second year, you have to do year six months industrial exposure training where you have to go and do your practicals in hotel right as you’re studying. And that actually is a learning experience and you learn a lot. So you are exposed to front office housekeeping, F&B, Kitchen, purchasing, you go through all the department. So when I say all the departments like you start from the bottom. And I remember when I started.

Ashish Tulsian

And you don’t just get exposed, you do it.

Prashanth Menon

You do that. So I was lucky enough to get into Chola Sheraton, which was the first Sheraton Hotel in India to do my internship because you go in for the interview process as well to get into that. 

Ashish Tulsian

Is it the Same Chola, ITC Chola now?

Prashanth Menon

Now it’s been moved. You’ve got a new Grand Chola, which is in Mount road I’m talking about the old one on Cathedral road. I think now it’s now called fortune.

Ashish Tulsian

It used to be called the Sheraton for the longest time.

Prashanth Menon

Yeah. So the first Sheraton that was the first Sheraton property in India and then the next one came the Mauryas in Delhi. And then you had the Park Sheraton. So Chola Sheraton, had its own own set up. And, you know, so I remember the first day of my training going back to Chola Sheraton was, OK, I’m going to the Hotel. White shirt, ironed up properly good black tie ready for the first day of training. Your seniors didn’t tell you about the exposure, what’s going to happen. So I went to the hotel and that when I realized staff don’t walk through the lobby. Right. So I got the bus and I said, you know what? And we walk into the lobby. I’m going to I’m working this one. You don’t know there’s something there’s there’s a back entrance for the staff. There’s a small door which you have to go. I walked into the lobby and I said, I remember you had a long I mean, that tall Sardar guy was standing in the door, and he opened the door and greeted me. I was like, Wow, this is the industry Prashanth, doctors don’t get this. So I went into this hotel. Nice, beautiful lobby, nice lobby music. I still remember it was this Kenny G pipe music in the background. Very different smell. And it was it was like a dream come true walking to the first time getting to Chola Sheraton. And I went to the front office and I said, see, I’ve come so and so they looked at me like that and then said, you have to go back, He will let you know. I went back to the doorman and I said this. Then he spoke in Hindi. He never spoke in English Or in Tamil. And I didn’t know Hindi at that time because I never I never had fluent English. I said, Can you tell me in English? They said, Go, go through that way. I went back cycle, car park, and I went back. And then those days nobody had scooters. It was all cycles. I went back. Then you can see cylinders and you can see food pick up. It’s no smell, no music, nothing. And you walk back to security and you have a card, you sign in and then you go, got these long doors where you have big pipes running. And so that was an experience. And you go to HR and then then that’s the reality check. And then you start going to different departments and kitchen and so the first thing they told me is Prashanth you’ll be starting with F&B. I remember the F&B manager coming and telling me, OK, good induction, he’s going to be your person who is going to help you out throughout your F&B journey. I said oh fine, brilliant. I went to the hotel. I worked over there for six months. A lot of experience like I could I could spend another day to tell you all about the whole experience so the supervisor came and said Prashanth please please remove your tie and he gave me a bow. So the tie is only for supervisors, bow is for waiters. OK and then I had I had the bow and then a first day I remember probably around 200 or 300 plates is what we had to wipe. Learnt that. It was tough. I am in kitchen you chefs would talk to you about standing in the range. I have never worked in the range during my training. It is all about going, picking up stores, taking up the requisition, filling up the coal and the charcoal and the tandoor, learning how to marinate stuff. And that was a job that you learn. And I think this is where people realized that in hotel it’s not about it’s about your personality. Will you be able to do this because it’s not an easy job. It’s not easy to work under different pressure or if you’re going to be working as a chef or even if you’re going to be a service, how are you going to manage guest expectations and maintaining standards? So I think Chola Sheraton was the biggest lesson for me. And then when I came back to college in 3rd year, 3rd year, you decide what’s your line of work.

Ashish Tulsian

But by that time, what were you like? Now that Chola Sheraton Happened. Then. And all the music in the lobby had dissappeared.

Prashanth Menon

You come back to reality because then you are learning about I want to know about this. For me it was about I actually volunteered for you even the graveyard shifts. I would say in those days, like I always used to. I’m not joking. I have stayed back. I kind of gotten into the good books of the supervisor just because you know what You ask anything to Prashanth is ready to do it. You know what? Like let it be going to pick up the stores, Chef today there is no store pick up? Give it to me like, sir, how many more plates? Please, let me go finish. So I used to set up three hundred to four hundred breakfast tables alone, so I’ll stay back. So it became like I wanted to know every nook and corner it was it was out of pure interest but it was tough. And I remember even for banquets, there were days where I have not gone out of the hotel. There were days when I stayed in the hotel, 2 days in banquets back to back.

Ashish Tulsian

That’s, you know, I’m going to double click on that, right? Because that is such an underrated thing in the world, right? That everybody wants their seniors to appreciate them. They want their organization and their company and their teams or whoever to recognize them. I just but, you know, just being available, can change so much. It’s such an underrated of course, it’s hard work as well because being available also means that you will be the one who will be picked. 

Prashanth Menon

To me, it was like this, right? It was it was a mindset about I wouldn’t say competitions about how fast are you going to learn. You only have a very short time of that exposure. Yeah. So for me, it was I want to know everything about, say, for example, if I was deputed for a week on room service, I want everything about room service because they wouldn’t send a trainee into the room. In Chola Sheraton say club exclusive room where only a butler’s service is there. That was a different department. Totally. So how would you go to that level? Because unless you don’t know this. So you learn that then to people in our what you don’t know what to do then they won’t give it to you. So you either have to learn it in order to get your supervisor’s confidence to have the trust. So yeah, you give the trust to me. I’ll never break up your trust that’s what it was about. And then I wanted, I didn’t want to break up the trust because the Supervisor would say Prashanth I’m sure when you come back by night, you’ll have this done. So in the morning, the prep can be done for the next shift. Well, he so this told me this and I will do this so that process has actually helped me to learn. And over a period of time, your supervisor spotted you and said like, you know what? This is supposed to be why you’re doing this.

Ashish Tulsian

But that’s but that’s largely that’s about showing up. Kind of like showing up rising up to the opportunity is actually bigger than, you know, opportunity appearing.

Prashanth Menon

Exactly

Ashish Tulsian

Because because you know a lot of people in professional life. You know wonder I have people asking me that. Oh, how do I you know? Yeah. You know, how do I get ahead? And I’m like, dude, show up. Yeah.

Prashanth Menon

You have to show up.

Ashish Tulsian

Just to show up because opportunities are not going to rise for you and then give you an invitation you have to be you have to show up every day, every evening. You have to you have to literally just show up and opportunities will start hitting you. Correct. Just because you showed up that it’s true for people. That’s true for companies through.

Prashanth Menon

And you know what to go back now from even that small thing I realize is even we talk about in training programs anticipating guest needs. I mean, it’s it’s it’s a word that you can tell in training because you make sure any briefings you tell your supervisors to tell your teams, you anticipate guest needs know that is it’s a word but how would you do it and how would you know that’s when your senses of how you talk about how you keep your instincts very sharp See what you can anticipate you look at the person’s eyes and anticipate what you want. It’s the same thing in the hotels and that’s where books will teach you. So that’s why the best thing about hotel management, you learn the basics. You learn the basics, but everything else is experience. Everything else is what you get on the experience. And I think that’s why this industry is I love this industry is because it  teaches you a lot of patience and it teaches you a lot of patience. You could you I mean, yes, you could do yoga, you could learn books, you can do a lot of stuff. But I think Hotel management is different which will teach you a lot of patience. Every format. You know what? I can stand for 10 hours. Hotel management will teach you this hotel school will teach you this. I can listen to abuses, customers abuses or anything for that matter. I would be able to be calm. I’ll have my nerve done that is this industry will teach you how you can be a person who can always be smiling, even though you have a lot of worries behind our head. So this is the industry that teaches you that. So I said, I cling on to this and I said, this is something that I love to do. And my aim was actually after finishing college, I said, You know what? I want to take F&B as my specialization. Even Though I loved kitchen I said, No, I want to be the person, the F&B manager that I saw at Chola. like they have a very grey and black pant, crispy white shirt, red tie and a nice blue jacket. I said, I want to be an F&B manager one day. And that’s exactly what my dream was. I started preparing on to get the best of these campus interviews that those days was very tough as well because we had two colleges hardly few five star properties Chola Sheraton, Park Sheraton, that’s it, You don’t get into this. Then you either go into a three star hotel. So my aim was to get them to these hotels. And then I finished my hotel management and I said F&B is what I’m going to look at and I did not get into any of these hotels. I could not get into any of these hotels. One, because you also have Oberoi school of management. You have the Manipal school of hotel management, plus you have the IIHM guys who are equally aiming for these hotels. And the vacancy’s only one. You only have one manager, one catering manager, or one catering assistant position because properties were not opening up as I speak. So that was a limitation of that time. I mean, slowly hotel management was catching up right. So I I left, I finished school and then I joined Stirling Holiday Resorts was the first holiday resort company, they came for campus and they took me as a manager in training and I went to I went to Delhi first time to go to Delhi. My first posting was in Kullu Manali. They opened the first resort in Kodaikanal and the second one was in Kullu Manali and I started my one and a half year with Stirling holiday Resorts. Understood the resort business of it. More leisure, retail, setting up F&B, understanding the coffee shop business and F&B business slowly I we were appointed as catering assistant or catering manager.

Ashish Tulsian

Was was Stirling timeshare even then?

Prashanth Menon

They started as a timeshare and they were opening properties and Goa, Delhi, Bombay, Ooty, Kodaikanal and Lonavala and all these places. And so we were being deputed to different resorts. So after my training in Kullu Manali and that’s where I learned Hindi I remember like going from Chennai to Delhi, getting off in Delhi and then taking the 16-hour bus from Delhi to Kullu. That was a journey that was beautiful and memory. I still remember stopping at Chandigarh and having this beautiful, north Indian Dabha style rotis and, and the best tandoori chicken that I till date had is that, that I’ll never forget that. So that was a journey had a beautiful time. And the best thing about Stirling holiday resorts was it was seasonal business. So you had a heavy peak season where you work 24 hours and then you had an off season as well. So I learned a lot. I had a very good resort manager who was also from hotel management school background. So he taught us a lot about management. And that’s when you started to learn about management. The one thing that in hotel school or in hotel management, they don’t teach you or in hotels is if you are in F&B they will teach you more on, you know, wine, services You will also learn about you know, customers. It’s always about customers. It is always about customers, right? How do you manage customers? What are the things about customer service and guest service? And I think from a resort perspective, actually knowing what a PNL is or, what the cost is, what does a chef do? What what’s the costing behind that? You only learn theoretically but practically you are not exposed to. So I think I got that exposure at stirling holiday where I took leads on small projects and then we were sent on a deputation back to in Tamilnadu where we had a Kodaikanal which was an opening. Ooty was opening as a resort so Kodaikanal and Ooty was two different places. We were doing projects offhand hand and managing the of the operation floor of setting up teams job role title roles doing small JD and job descriptions that those days it was on a typewriter.

Ashish Tulsian

So you were you you wanted to go into F&B but but you know getting into a resort you know was was was still making you do a lot of hotel.

Prashanth Menon

The thing in resorts was you had the background of that FNB experience but what actually thought you was you were actually asked to lead a lot of small projects because it is a new opening they utilized us to get the S.O.P. and operations modules done with the guidance of, you know, consultant, like a restaurant consultant would come and say, hey, your restaurant square feet is going to be this. This is the theme of your restaurant and and the rest as you and your chef work together with the menu. You do that so that exposure, I don’t think you will get it from a hotel because what else? You already have it all You are going to go and blend in and execute it. So from that resort is that that’s where I actually learned that skill. And at that time I was thinking, why are they making me do all this? And I actually wanted to work. And wanted to take orders. I wanted to see customers, but we were doing projects backend and then we opened up the first resort in after after Kullu Manali. We came back to final Ooty. We opened up Ooty, we finished opening of the resort. The resort is up and running and then it came to a point that, yeah, now it’s done. What else to do next? So the GMO there actually left OK. And there was a big change because I don’t know whether you remember Stirling Holiday Resorts also had some issues in terms of timeshare and got some bad, bad reviews and stuff. So I decided plus I was also moving a lot and I felt like I need to be closer to home. And my sister got married and she left. Mom was alone at home as well. So I decided let me let me come back and look for something in hotels and I got an opportunity to work with the Residency Hotel. The Residency Hotel was the first hotel with a business class hotel opened up in Chennai, meaning five star service, but as a different price point. So residency was our first product to come in and I joined as an assistant F&B manager started off my career over there, and worked for two years we had a beautiful restaurant called Chin–chin. Ahar was a first buffet restaurant and they had a nice, beautiful bar and it was managing that and enjoyed that whole experience. I learned a lot again. And from there you dream about going to the next level. Where I always looked at going to another country and getting more exposure.

Ashish Tulsian

In the hotels only?

Prashanth Menon

In the hotels. And you had a lot of your friends within the hotels line going to US, going to Miami, joining Cruise lines. So some of them went into Sodexo, some of them went into flight catering. And I said, Now where can I go? Where do I think is my next goal? So my sister moved into Dubai and she was working for a travel line, and she said Prashanthwhy don’t you come here for a holiday? We are we will send you a visit visa and I said, OK, let’s go. So I came on a visit visa in 1996 in 1997.

Ashish Tulsian

Dubai?

Prashanth Menon

Dubai. Yeah, she, she was staying in Sharjah but yeah, I came to Sharjah actually I landed in Sharjah Airport and I was staying with my sister and she said, why don’t you give your CVs over here?

Ashish Tulsian

Was this place in the eighties holiday worthy?

Prashanth Menon

No it I would say it was more, it was more on the Dehra side. So at that point of time there were only two malls which is very famous. I remember it was Al Ghurair mall and the Derah city center that was the only

Ashish Tulsian

Oh Dehra City center is that old?

Prashanth Menon

I mean, I think Al Ghurair Center is older than that as well. So people used to stay in Sharjah because Dubai was very small. It was only there as a hub, but Dubai was very small enough. There was nothing called Marina or JBR.

Ashish Tulsian

Yeah, I mean that I know that JBR is like I mean ‘97. I will not even ask for JBR. Right. I think I think Burj al-Arab was also not there.

Prashanth Menon

It came and it came in somewhere in the middle early 2000. So I gave few of my CV’s and now my sister’s office. She works for Orient travels and I got recommended and I got a job too. I had an offer to work with Holiday International, which is part of Sharjah National Hotels in Sharjah it was new, a five star property at the time and Sharjah was known for I mean, they were not serving alcohol and I had a good position and a good offer. I said, You know what, let me try. And I started on that. So I came in ‘97 joined Sharjah National Hotels as a maitre d and then from maitre d became a restaurant manager and I worked for.

Ashish Tulsian

How did you how did your jump happen to like pure restaurants, what was that point?

Prashanth Menon

Because I had, I had I had worked in residency before this, right? So I understood the restaurant operations and both banquets and restaurant was, what I was managing in residency. So with that experience and with the resort experience and a bit of Chola, I managed to get into Holiday International and within a year from maitre d I got promoted to a restaurant manager. And then I worked there for three and a half, four years, and in it’s in Sharjah National Hotels, where I think I learned a lot in terms of processes where you learnt about international standards. You also learn about, you know, a banqueting was very big over there and a very different style of banqueting, unlike India, more of standing were to sit down services and, you know, policies and procedures. The best thing that you learned over there was working with a multicultural team. You have a team which is of a different diversity different teams, different mood swings, different. We are working with. Managing those that was the that was the biggest, biggest learning for me. Hotels were good. It was nice, interesting. But then at some point in time in your life when you’re young, you always dream about money right. It was the I like some of the fact. I need to make money. I need to do this in life. I started to My only aim in my life was to buy a house for my parents because my we never had our own house. Dad was always we were always staying in a rented house until upon 2006, 2007. So my only aim was to buy a house of my own and, you know, buy a house for my father and mom. And that’s that was the only objective at that point of time. And I was looking at money. I said, you know what? I need to step up my career. I’ll work in a different hotel I.

Ashish Tulsian

Hotels are not like the best pay masters, is it?

Prashanth Menon

It was the same. I wouldn’t say it was the best because what happens in hotels is most of the hotels, they do give you a salary and your accommodation and everything has been taken care of.

Ashish Tulsian

Correct. Yeah.

Prashanth Menon

How do you how do you go next and learn and at the same time also go up in your career? So I had I had my I F&B director at the time. He left the hotels and he joined Pizza Express at that time. Standalone Restaurant in Dubai. In 2000, Pizza Express opened their first.

Ashish Tulsian

Oh Pizza express which has been there since?

Prashanth Menon

Since 2000.

Ashish Tulsian

But I think that’s also because of you know London I mean UK.

Prashanth Menon

Exactly Pizza Express has been there since 1965 as the first restaurant opened in the UK. So very very very strong heritage in the brand so he joined pizza express and said Prashanth hotel line is very different over here it’s a different market and I think this is where the future is for the restaurant and hospitality industry hotels are there but I think from a restaurant point of view is where you can actually learn and grow and understand the business into a different level. So I and I said fine because sometimes what happens is when you have leaders they take you along with you. Yeah. And you’ve got a very good team in Holiday international we were the team we won the Emirates culinary guild. We had a lot of awards that we won. We we organized a lot of trade shows, University events, outdoor events, events for the royal families, a lot of experience. We worked as, we were a very good team over there, brilliant team so when he said, I said fine, you know what I will give it a try, and the salary was good, standalone restaurants are paying good. So I was about to join in the 2000. 

Prashanth Menon

We have a we have a role you can come and join so 2003 joined Pizza Express.

Ashish Tulsian

Wow, And it’s been 20 years?

Prashanth Menon

Twenty, Yeah 23 years. I worked for three years in Sharjah as well. So if you look at my UAE experience, 23 years but with Pizza Express, 20 years.

Ashish Tulsian

Wow.

Prashanth Menon

Yeah. No, I mean there was a break and Pizza Express as well.

Ashish Tulsian

Yeah. Because I read it as well.

Prashanth Menon

Together it’s run 14 years because for four and a half years I Etihad airways as well in between so I’ll tell you why that happened as well. So came to Dubai my son was born and then things changed at home because they say right? when they see your grandson, parents generally change in both in both sites. So that became easier. We started living together over here slowly and and that’s how my journey in Pizza Express started started off with two restaurants we scaled up to seven until about 2008 and we were a franchisee model at that time.

Ashish Tulsian

OK. So owned by somebody else?

Prashanth Menon

Somebody else, it was a franchisee model and pizza express so amazing brilliant brand at that time. And the exposure that you get right from opening a store from shell and coal to getting the process everything in place. I think Pizza Express had it all. And I think this is the biggest difference in hotels and in restaurants I think we were in the right time. And from my international brand perspective, I kind of enjoyed working with the brand because the brand was giving you that leverage to do things and I mean, there is no, in hotels what happened was you always have your boss above you, right? You have to hierarchy, you have to follow process and you that’s it. That’s your limitation. There’s nothing more that you can do at the time. You had your own limitations. And I think.

Ashish Tulsian

I think also hotel is like a very complex beast because it’s also multi-modal. It’s not really one business happening in that building. Correct. Multiple, multiple.

Prashanth Menon

Multiple organizations, You have engineering, housekeeping, front office.

Ashish Tulsian

Restaurant is like a single.

Prashanth Menon

Exactly. And then you could you could go into the GM. But then I did not have I mean, I did not have the studies that I wanted to do where I could have actually mastered in Switzerland or done from Cornell. And then you could have actually stepped in the leadership program, go into a GM or on that level because obviously I just did my hotel management diploma and then I straightaway came to this team, And your family, your life. And then you just need to work your, you know. And I was always looking at money at that time to be really honest. And my only aim was to get a house back home, clear out everything. And my dad got retired as well. So I was only bread winner for my family, take care of my parents, I take care of my wife’s side as well. I had a family so money was actually a goal at that time. How do I get to carry it and money? So a Pizza Express gave that platform by God’s grace, I was able to grow from area manager, ops manager, head of Ops, up until 2008.

Ashish Tulsian

How much was that? Because you are still showing up for all your seniors.

Prashanth Menon

When you say that in the sense?.

Ashish Tulsian

How much was that? Because Prashanth was always the man, you know, that gets the job done, is always available to you. Is that something that you carry all throughout? Always the available guy.

Prashanth Menon

I’m always the available guy. And I think that’s why people like me. You know what with Prashanth you would you tell him anything and anything he would do. So I think that’s that’s why from Pizza express brand itself, I kind of got that to my my seniors. You know what that would be today from a brand he into his outdoor caterings, to open the first alcohol site in the the Pizza Express at JLT we also opened up the kiosk model we were the first one to start delivery in 2007 from a from pizza point of view or a casual dining brand. So I think all these more small leads that we did in the brand I think I got the initiative, I had the jumpstart to do it and this brand allowed me to do it. So from one restaurant to seven restaurants to 12 restaurants in 2007 2007 2008 we had, I had, I had a bigger issues. I think, you know, sometimes in life you learn a lot. There’s always somebody from the top will come and tell you, you know, you’re going on a very fast pace. You need to slow down. Yeah, I was enjoying my life and my work, everything was fine. And dad was diagnosed from cancer. So it was. It is, it is it is shocking. It was very difficult and I was the only one. And I told you mom, mom is very orthodox. She doesn’t she doesn’t even know the outside world. So I had to go quite frequently to India. Meantime, understand what the problems were. So he had he has a sarcoma on his leg. So it came to a point where I had to go and didn’t know whether it was cancer and what the depth of it what the level of it. So doctor said it’s it’s malignant. So he need to operate him and cut the story short. The when they tried to remove his tumor and the operation did not go well. So Dad had to have his leg amputated. And can you imagine and can you imagine like right. So so again, like, you know, I’m thinking the life teaches you a lot of patience. I think the industry teaches you a lot of patience. I was the only person where the surgery was done. They took out the tumor and at 10:00 in the night the surgeon comes and tells me I was the only one in the hospital and my mom is in the home at home and the doctor comes in and says see dad has developed something called his necrosis. And because of that, there’s a blood clot and if we don’t treat this well, the main blood vessels will burst and it’s going to be life threatening. We know we need your consent to have your dad’s leg amputated in 4 hours time and I am wondering I have to take a decision yes or no. And I just didn’t. I was just blank. That’s because I, I only pray that nobody should get this in their life. But actually, you know, sometimes you have to take the decision, right? You have to take the right decisions for your parent. And for me, as I said, dad was everything to me. I was at the lowest point of the time and lowest point in time. Like, you know, when I wanted to go and hide myself somewhere or I wanted to fast forward my life or I wanted to rewind my life and say, can I go and get back? All that thought came out, but I had to sign it. The next day, dad was in the ICU and he went into a coma because of his age. And I and I was my only thing in my head is, what am I going to tell my dad? How is he going to react? And dad was the fittest persone I have ever seen he when he had when he had this.

Ashish Tulsian

That makes it even more difficult.

Prashanth Menon

He was 78 years old, he was as fit as he could be. He used to play cricket. He used a cycle a lot. And he was always fit, he always never sat, sat, sat alone. So for that person to understand that his leg is gone it is something which I didn’t know how to react, but then it all happened. He always said, yeah, I know Prashanth all the bad things have gone good things will only remain, this was the words that he said when I met him. He said, I know, I know. Prashanth, I knew that there’s something bad. That’s fine that’s gone. That’s all he said. And so he that’s the personality that that he was. And then for six months I was in India going through this. And I think that’s where the reality is matter of life is there are two things that you learn in life. One is, yes, you learn about your professional level. You learn everything you can. You you will learn a lot for yourself. And that six months in hospital going in and out and you understand how valuable that every day in life it is and what you can contribute back to the society or to anyone for that matter, or even if you can help somebody. That’s what I changed myself about. It’s not always about money. It is not about money, but it’s about every day that you live. What what can you do things better for this, right?

Ashish Tulsian

Your chase evolved

Prashanth Menon

I just changed myself. Yes. You have your own family benefits and stuff like that. So that was the biggest change for me. And I kind of I kind of changed myself.

Ashish Tulsian

How did that manifest in your work?

Prashanth Menon

In work, I started to think about, you know, what it sometimes in the industry, it’s all not about winning trophies and awards and stuff. I said, you know what? How can I be an importance of people where you can change that culture? You can change the behavior. How can you be a mentor? How can you bring changes to the people’s life? And so I think, again, I mean after that I left Pizza Express. I left Pizza Express because I said I wanted to spend a lot of time with my parents and I left Pizza Express and I didn’t want to come back. And my friend, at that time I had joined Etihad airways and he said, Prashanth, you need to do something you can’t look at something back home in India. Your wife is over here. How are you going to go back? And Pizza Express is also having a change in the management in the sense where the current owners were looking at selling off the business because they were two partners and they wanted to move away. So that was happening as well. And I said, you know what, it’s right time. I’ve done eight years with Pizza Express. So when I joined back, let me look at something else and I had the opportunity to join with Etihad airways, so they’re coming with an onboard F&B manager. It’s a very new program, National Airline of Dubai. It was 2008. So I was like, Wow, it’s something that I can and I have a lot of time to be with my parents. I can move around. So I took up the job, worked with them for four years. And Etihad also taught me a lot of stuff where you look at a different level of people.

Ashish Tulsian

Top two things that an airline F&B, you know, taught you or opened your eyes to?

Prashanth Menon

More than F&B, I think. Yes, it’s about the food and the service. And, you know, you had the you had the exposure of meeting top top celebrities. Yeah. And and really big people like like from the likes of Sheikh Al Nahyan to Yusuf Ali, who was the owner of Lulu, to you name it. But then they are totally different person in the 35,000 feet. They just like normal people. They sit and chat with you. I had I remember I had a six hour chat, me and myself and Yusuf Ali was the only person we had a lot of chat in that first class business lounge all the way to Capetown. So we talked all the way through a very simple person talked about how he is. So that’s something which was beautiful.

Ashish Tulsian

Why were you on the flight by the way?

Prashanth Menon

So onboard F&B managers fly on a long haul flight, so you are.

Ashish Tulsian

Oh so you were an onboard F&B manager?

Prashanth Menon

Yes so you do all the long haul flights. So you do flights to Sydney, New York, Melbourne.

Ashish Tulsian

Yeah, of course.

Prashanth Menon

So that’s that’s another four years of an opportunity that I had to travel throughout the world, managed to go and see different places.

Ashish Tulsian

Well, so you’re flying four years?

Prashanth Menon

Yes, it was. It was a flying job. It was a job. Where you are responsible of passengers in business class and you take care of that job. So in terms of food and service, it was very easy. But what I also realized is the cabin crew job and the air and the air and the flight deck, those jobs are also as equivalents, and we don’t realize you only look at that as a most glamorous job, but they put a lot of hard work because their job is to ensure the safety of the passengers. Next comes the service. So in order to put that you’re working long hours, you’re working at different time zones, people think, oh, that’s not much of a job because they hardly have a sleeping, the sleeping pattern is generally changed and in order to keep that momentum, put that smile, keeping to the highest grooming standards. You’re working on pressure. You want to make sure safety is always a priority. And there’s lots of medical cases that you see onboard.

Ashish Tulsian

Yeah.

Prashanth Menon

So you see, imagine that you’re looking at customer service, but it’s also in a different service level. So your service is very different. And then you to talk to captains. Yeah, they’re paid well, they do well. It’s a more stressful job and they’re bored. They’ll, they like to speak to you. You do get a chance to speak to them in the cockpit, right? And then they talk to you about life skills. And what they’ve done and the envy us. I wish I can do a job where I could stand and walk 7 hours of the flight they are sitting. And so the airline industry did teach me that.

Ashish Tulsian

But I have I have I have a lot I mean, given the I’m a I’m a flier enough to respect you know, I see that every day. I mean for me that’s and.

Prashanth Menon

But sometimes people don’t appreciate, I’ve seen customers.

Ashish Tulsian

I, I also understand why people don’t appreciate because they don’t see them a lot. Right. Because you are if you are traveling once in a while. Yeah. For you, it’s like, you know, my experience today when you’re continously flying. Yeah. You’re like you. Yeah. I mean, I find myself I’m a I mean, I’m a customer who likes good hospitality, OK? But at the same time, on flights at times, I find myself just reading a steward an air hostess. And, you know, after I make my request and I’m like, you know what? Whatever else you’re doing, continue that. Bring it later. I’m OK. You don’t need to do it. Right? Yeah. And I see the smile at that moment. And in that moment, something lights up.

Prashanth Menon

Lights up. True. Because they also work on a lot of stress and pressure because sleeping patterns, your mood swings are very different. It’s the air that you breathe in, in the cabin, and then your food times are very different. So that’s, that’s that’s industry.

Ashish Tulsian

So 4 years all over the world

Prashanth Menon

All over the world came back and the Pizza Express was no more an franchise franchisee. They just bought back the equity. And then that’s when the brand said that we would like to join you back. We want you to come and join back. We are trying to open the first alcohol restaurant in the region and we have bigger plans and stuff like that. So I said, OK, sounds good. And there was they had a they had a very massive plan of expansion. So joined Pizza Express in 2012 as the head of Ops, we opened the first alcohol store, which is Desert Pizza Express in 2012, and then we went to the other Emirates Jumeirah for Jeddah and other places. We opened the second alcohol restaurant over here and I’ve been there for them, head of Ops to director of ops and now I’m the regional director. So in this, in this cycle, after I came back from India and that whole I kind of changed my approach towards managing this business. I mean pizza express they always call about has very rich heritage, beautiful DNA. Yeah, and brand. And we were not a brand at the franchisee model where people wanted to work for the brand. People in Dubai were always looking at salary. They’re looking at a place where they can make money, send money back home, and more. Or They wanted to work in hotels, hotels like I’m talking about Sheraton’s Atlantis, Jumeirah group, Ritz Carlton, how are you going to get the best talent, right? So that can come only from us. I if I start to think on those only then I’ll have people to come and stay and work with us for long. And I always dreamt about being the great place to work. All right. I dreamt about it. And I know when one of the board managers meeting when I went to the board and said, you know, I had a proposal say that in three years time, I want Pizza Express to be the great place to work. And no due respect, at the time, the CEO was was supposed to visit was very new to the business. He two years he said Prashanth. I really like ambition. I really support you. But go for it. Right. But I don’t want you to be upset even if you don’t reach because he was thinking it’s not going to be easy for a restaurant to get be a great place to work. And if you look at great place to work, there was no restaurant in that category at all. It was always your DHL or UPS, Google companies in Dubai.

Ashish Tulsian

That I know that I mean, it’s difficult. It’s difficult for tech companies. We got it two years back. Correct. But I know it’s.

Prashanth Menon

So my aim was, you know, if if I have to be if I have to be in that spectrum, it is not about getting the trophy, believe me. And our my object was not to get the trophy. I said, if I’m going to bring this to my HODs, we are going to start that culture within our team.

Ashish Tulsian

Why did you have that ambition? What was the seed?

Prashanth Menon

See, because we had a plan to it double our estate, OK? If you don’t have your foundation and your team, you’re not going to succeed. Definitely not going to succeed.

Ashish Tulsian

But I’m assuming that UAE always you know, UAE always has people. available, right? There’s no dearth of people.

Prashanth Menon

But you you you need the right talent to stick onto your company.

Ashish Tulsian

But if it’s Pizza Express, it’s a set brand and so, you know.

Prashanth Menon

It was not because I would say like most of them at that point of time, I’ll be very open. It was like a waiter or a supervisor, a maximum shelf life would have been two contracts. So this is like four years, two to four years. They would leave, they would get a job in the cruise lines or they would jump in elsewhere or even retail. So most of them at that point of time, if you’re working in the hospitality industry, retail would give you a better salary. They were looking for better group. So people new people coming. And I didn’t want this to happen it was I said, how how am I going to fix this? So HR would say, you know, they’re going they’re getting better salaries and stuff. Like I said, no, what let’s let’s do one thing. Let’s aim big. Let’s go for this great place to work. I want to be the best place to work. I want people to come and work for this brand. What can we do? What can we do? Something different. And when you go back and you see there were a lot of small small things that we had to change within a management style, and that made a difference. And today you wouldn’t believe I have. 60% of my staff are almost 15 years plus. And now how did this happen?

Ashish Tulsian

That’s that’s amazing. Yeah.

Prashanth Menon

So for me, I mean like like a lot of them say oh Prashanth, you talk about this marketing. I said, no, it’s not about marketing. It’s not about going and putting ourselves and saying this. So unsung heroes I said no. You need to do things at the right time. It is about what is required, not for you. I mean, the ownership mindset. Everybody talk. You need to have the ownership mindset how are you going to bring it right? One, yes, you can bring it, top line sales. You can get the EBIDTA that 100% you will do it. But the other part of it is the people element which are the people who are driving a business. And sometimes in the board level we don’t look at it Yeah, right.

Ashish Tulsian

Because it is very difficult because it’s very difficult to quantify it.

Prashanth Menon

It is it is very true. So at that point of time I remember in 2012 to always always on 2017 and 18 and even till 2019 our turnover was sitting at plus around 28 to 30% industrial average was pretty much the same today we’re a 10%.

Ashish Tulsian

So that’s commendable. I mean I was not expecting you to finish that great place to work with saying that you know you have people 60% in F&B for 15 years. I don’t know how many brands can say that except for I mean how many F&B brands can say that.

Prashanth Menon

I wouldn’t know. I mean maybe there are very different brands and some good brands. But then like if you look at my store managers, they all started as waiters. So you’re doing two things, right? I always wanted one thing which I always tell my HR and everybody in the leadership team with me is like, Guys, I want the teams to be grown within the system. I do not want to bring any leadership from outside. So they see the growth plan. How are you going to give the growth plan? You’ve got to demonstrate and do it for them. So we set up that. So all my Store managers started as waiters. All my restaurant is a ten year, 12 year place. You have my ops managers, we’ve got 18 years of experience, 18 to 19 years of experience. So when you have this, anything that you want to achieve you will be able to do it. So my approach is people first strategy. That’s, that’s exactly what I did. I went bottom to top approach.

Ashish Tulsian

If you if you want to share a couple of things that you do for this to happen, what are those simple looking but deep insights?

Prashanth Menon

We always do talk about celebration, employee recognition, all right simple things like any new employee coming into the business. Supposing if you are going to join Pizza Express you will be welcomed at my store with a celebration on a day one when I say celebration is you’ll have a small cake. Everybody around the team will come to you. Yes. Everyone in that particular spot.

Ashish Tulsian

Any employee?

Prashanth Menon

Any employee who comes, let it be front of the house, A guy was in the kitchen front of the house. Pot wash, kitchen steward we call them, anybody who’s joining the business. Right. Irrespective of what it is, we start with a small cake, welcome them and straight up and they get an induction into the store. Induction doesn’t mean to a straight away do this, do that. And so they go to the different process. So our induction program is very, very involved. We talk about the brand. So we have a very good induction program. We talk about the brand, we give them a welcome kit, we make them be part of the family. We talk to them about the UAE, what this culture is about, what this brand is all about. So they know everything about the brand before when they start their first step of their training journey. So that was small. And at the same time, if anybody was leaving we also celebrate with a cake. most of the companies. What happens is, I mean, from what I’ve seen, you’re leaving? Immediately when you’re leaving, you become into the bad books of your bosses of and I have experience when I was, when I was in hotels. You what? you are leaving? Come on, man. You’re going and joining a competitor. You had that in your head and you were fine. OK, go, man. You go fair, but all the best. Good luck. But you didn’t have that smile in the face. You said, yeah, this guy is going and joining a competitor. But I kind of changed it. You know what? It’s his life. He’s going to go. He’s going to do, He’s going to remember this. So let us celebrate and thank him for whatever that you’ve done. You work for one year, two years, or three years. So when you leave, we also give you a small cake, teams get together, they all buy a gift from their pockets or whatever. Whether they are to contribute, they’ll give some farewell gift. You celebrate. Thank you very much. We give a good recognition certificate thank you very much. And you signed up. And you know what that has done? Then we have people who have left the business and wanted to come back. Yeah, it is not because I wanted them to come back. I want them to remember that your journey with Pizza Express was something unique that you learned. They don’t come to the brand, try and learn as much as possible. That’s my always go to my manager’s guys. Customer service. Everything will happen. No problem. You will teach them. What you cannot teach them is about the values of the company. We can put value posters in the Restaurants everywhere, but it has to come from you.

Ashish Tulsian

I’ll be writing that down.

Prashanth Menon

Yes. So you are the owner of the restaurant, the store manager. I empower them for everything. They can take every critical decisions, good or bad. Sit with the team, if one team member has a problem, it’s a problem of all of us. If one team member has a problem back home, he’s having a problem with financial, monetary, we are all together to support. So that has been cultured down to them. And then we build up small, small rewards programs like, you know, recognition of the team not only the front of the house, back of the house. If you’ve got a very good rewards and recognition scheme.

Ashish Tulsian

That speaks that speaks volumes.

Prashanth Menon

And all that, I like you know, you’ve completed five years. We, we celebrate. You come here 15 years, we bring in a limousine. We have a good staff party. We had an employee, we completed 22 years before even I could join. So what we did was we gave him a surprise where we invited his whole family back from India, surprised him on that. They got him a visa for two months, fully paid by the company to stay and go on. So yeah, these are small things that we do.

Ashish Tulsian

Nice.

Prashanth Menon

But I’m not I’m not saying this just to get a pat on the back, but I think these are something which they have. They are well deserved to get it. And I think if you don’t recognize these somebody else would go or they would go away or they would be with somebody else. So for me to later take any position in the company, I’m able to take it because you, you believe that the foundations that you believe that the team can keep can do wonders. And the same thing with even the biggest thing that needed also in the brand was has HACCP certification. So we are we are the only restaurants that are fully certified on HACCP. Now when I went for HACCP, everybody said OK, you can take care of customers. You can bring in safety. How do you bring HACCP to your a system for restaurants. Hotels would do it.

Ashish Tulsian

But you’re saying that you you you you’ve been for HACCP certification you’re saying this is not something that is mandated by Pizza Express HQ.

Prashanth Menon

No nobody goes for HACCP. HACCP is totally different so which means you are going to be the best in the in QS ensuring that you give safe food to the customers. So how do we be the best in that segment? OK one in people we put a benchmark. And I’m why I’m telling you this is because you can dream big because you know that the teams can deliver, know that you are giving the right tools for them and they are increased to do this. So resistance is always there you will always find resistance of people coming and telling your Prashanth it’s going to be tough. HACCP was only for production.

Ashish Tulsian

Yeah. Unnecessary, why, why, why do we need it?

Prashanth Menon

Why To do it? It’s, it’s a I said no it’s about bringing that awareness and the food safety culture into the team because that’s very important for the business as we grow. Now, an allergic tolerance are different. We have cross-contamination. There’s lots of things happening. So we made sure that all my store managers are level four qualified and QS exams not even level three. The company will take care of it. We pay for you, we pay a fee. Education will pay for that.

Ashish Tulsian

That might have that might have just changed the game for you guys when it comes to the sensitivity of each manager about these things.

Prashanth Menon

Very true, because my store managers did not have that exposure. They knew cross-contamination and nobody has an idea.

Ashish Tulsian

And these I mean, my own experience and I’ll share one small thing, you know, is that my same experience has been in the tech security. And I can tell you that we we have a list of certifications that we have gone through. Yeah. And most of these certifications were neither required nor asked for definitely nobody asked for me because BSI to certify us. Yeah. And I basically, you know, through a lot of my teammates into that play saying, even if we don’t qualify, it’s OK. Let’s just go through this. We hired agencies and we told them that we don’t want certificate take us through the program and we want to learn. I think the game changer for me in my observation was that for me my CTO for everyone was that people who went through the program, their sensitivity to security compliance went up so Much naturally that even in the conversations where it was technically not asked for required, basically started saying, you know, this is not going to be compliant, that that’s not going to be secure and I was like, you know what? This is perfect.

Prashanth Menon

This is exactly what my thought was. It is not about putting a HACCP certification picture, which are neither The authorities asked for it or the brand asked for it, but I said, let’s aim for it. The reason why? Because we need to build that culture right now. If I don’t have an end goal, if I don’t have a goal, that this is what I want to do, I’m not able to do it my end goal. Could be, yeah. My goal is my store managers to be exposed to this training and pass and get us on to bigger not main goal was that because I wanted them to learn. So we went back and said, you know what, every store manager has to pass pass level four. Level four is 90%, 85%, I think 80 percent or above theory exams, four days of classes, you go and learn everything about food science. So for them it was like, as you rightly said, they passed, then when you are going back to them and say, Hey, these are the processes, these are the KPIs that you need to pull it, make him easy for them. And then for level two supervisors, we made level three as a mandate. They have to pass and within a year time it became so easy that teams would go and execute things that they want. So your kitchens are always safe. You don’t need to worry, you don’t need to think about a consultant because you’ve already entered that system into place.

Ashish Tulsian

And it’s like once, you know, you know, right? Like.

Prashanth Menon

Absolutely. And I think hospitality, Sodexo small projects that I learned in the past and even for airline procedures, I think that’s where I kind of got some sort of experiences that I had. And I said, you know what? Unless and until you don’t give it to them, you’re not going to get it from small restaurants. I mean, we didn’t look at as a brand, which is being there you can’t copy and paste in a smaller format. What else niche things that you can do to make it better? I think that’s that’s where we nailed it, I think and I think from our today, we’ve been as a hub supporting and I mean, we’ve got a wonderful CEO right now. Her name is Paula Mackenzie. And she’s an absolute and north star approach. She always has a big vision.

Ashish Tulsian

She’s the CEO of the of the group?

Prashanth Menon

And when she came into the market, she said Prashanth. You always need to think big. And you know, that one shot mentality, that is what you have. And now we’re embracing that, you know, one team, one goal. And that’s that’s the mantran now for our business. And from her vision, it’s very simple. Getting a basics done and ensuring how I mean, that one shot mentality is so it’s so true because I also relate to you know, that experience that you have with the teams as well. It’s like you only have that one chance with a customer and the same thing with the employees or same thing that you tell your customers or your teams because what you’re telling your teams is what they want to relay to your customers. And the same thing with the management as well. What we’re going to create is what is going to go on. So I think that’s where we’re able to.

Ashish Tulsian

Given that given given your commitment to your, you know, role, to your job, to your to your team, you know, both when you are I can I can consistently see that, you know, pattern. And I can also see, you know, a lot of, you know, conviction on you know, challenging the status quo for good. Yeah. You know, be it, career be it, you know, organization building, institution building, what is what do you look at in today’s you know, when you when you when you see people if they’re not rising up to the opportunity or you know, there’s so much chatter about work life balance and and you know, professionally you know don’t do more than that is required when you see these kind of chatter around what’s what’s your thought, what’s going on?

Prashanth Menon

I think I sometimes give my experience to them. So like this is the same thing with the ops managers and others.

Ashish Tulsian

Do you think there’s a work life balance?

Prashanth Menon

There is. It’s up to you as a, see like like like let’s like before the answer to your question, I’ll tell you, you know, the same brand for so many years, there’s a lot of different opportunities. And, you know, you’ve you’ve you’ve got and you wanted to join a different organization far better. But you know what I said when I wake up, I want to go and work. I want to go and I want to go to my office and work. That’s actually the that’s what the brand is actually giving it to me. And I love to go to work. It’s not about the salary. It’s not about the title that I hold and it’s about I mean, in head office. Right. I’ll give you a simple example. We have a work culture where you wear your personality. You come to work, there’s no time in time out. You finished your work, you can go. There’s no problem about it. So that I encourage everyone to go and have annual leaves. Guys you can carry forward annual leave. You have to go. Tell me what you did on the weekends right. But in the hospitality industry, that’s very difficult. It’s very, very difficult. On a Christmas or a new year, on a peak shifts, your key managers cannot go on leave, right? And they’re doing different shifts. They do morning shift and evening shift. In evening shifts The wife’s are here they want to go out. but I kind of change that. I said, You know what? It’s up to you. You are the owner, you know, when it is required. You can change that about how you want to do it. And that’s why we had empowering teams below you and your teams below you to take that step. You know, it’s not necessary that I want my manager to be the beacon. Yes. During visits, you have to be there to manage that. But if you have your second in command, to take that role and you can be off that’s fine. So if you’ve given that leverage and that freedom to the teams as well, and I said that as an example and you know what hotels are like in the past, if you want to go and ask for leave, Prashanth, why don’t you go on, January, after this big peak season? So I said I in our industry, there’s peak in non peak will always be there. So if somebody has to go doing peak and if, you know, once in a year if he can go and spend that time with his family, that’s going to be a big, big game changer for him. Right. And I tried this within the teams with Ops managers as well. And there was no difference. Things were the same. That’s because it’s in your head that you think that these are things that will not happen or if in store managers not during the peak weekend shift, their entire operations are going to be collapsed, that means there is something wrong in the system. You know, I adjust the stores, in the absence of a store manager, how well the store is running without the absence of a store manager, that’s the key. And I think that’s that’s happened now. So most of my store managers or even leadership team that freedom of of taking a leaves is there and I think that’s because I think they have developed their culture within their with their juniors.

Ashish Tulsian

And that’s a big one. I’ll share one thing that I read this book called How Google Works. It’s written by it’s co-written by Sheryl Sandberg and Eric Schmidt, the CEO of previous CEO of Google. Sheryl Sandberg used to be at Google for the longest time. She became the CEO of Facebook, kind of, you know, so she basically wrote 1 thing, which is which stayed with me. She said that every year when I joined in Facebook, I you know, see, she said when she joined Google, one of the leaders she was working with, probably they had a rule that every year they will send a team lead or an important person on the team, a team manager on a 15 day compulsory leave. Phone switched off and email switched off. Yeah. And she said, you know, it was important for two reasons. One, for team to understand that they should be able to run the show without, you know, that person. She said it was also important for that person to realize.

Prashanth Menon

How solid the rest of the team is.

Ashish Tulsian

Yeah, things can work without them as well. Yes. And that also means that they can take on, you know, bigger things, better things or in case things are breaking down in their absence. Probably they need to do this better. Probably it is probably it is not done enough because they’re just holding the fort like this. And as soon as they are out it falls apart. So that that stayed with me. That’s that’s a beautiful concept. And I think pretty much, you know, what you are seeing is also that.

Prashanth Menon

Because I also am and now they would say like, no, I it wouldn’t be possible that I have to be there on certain shifts like, oh, it it is not my managers. We have few names in the moment even if, you know, in the store and I want to see the store running the way it does usually. If you are going on one month, irrespective of peak or non peak, it still goes on. Right? How well, it’s going on is the question mark. Is it going on well when Varun(manager) is there, under his umbrella or is under his supervision or in his absence? I think that’s where we scaled up as well. Even from our guest scores to our mystery audits sitting at 87 today we have benchmark of 95 you know so that didn’t come by because of I thought about it. I think everybody in the team thought about it right from bottom to top. So that’s that’s that’s where, that’s helped us as well. And I always tell our managers, you know, I, this is, this is something which I, I don’t read books a lot yet. I’m not a good reader, but I love to listen. So I I watched a lot of documentaries of TED talks and stuff. So Simon Sinek. Yeah. So there’s one thing which, which I have, it’s really caught my eye two to three years back is I want read this book all right. As well. I want to read it at some point. Of time. But there’s one thing which is which is very true is like, you know, a guy who’s in this key, right? He and he’s going down.I think I got fascinated with this quote of what he was trying to explain in one of his TED talk show is, you know what the ski slopes are that you have this ski is going down for the race. They do see obstacles right. But they navigate through those obstacles. So the aim is to navigate the obstacles. And this is exactly what I tell everybody. The guys, you will have obstacles and now don’t look at this an obstacle as an obstacle. You see, how am I going to steer away from this? And which is very true and so I tell guys, whether you’re there, you look at every challenge as to how can you move away from it. It could be short or it could be long. And in any business, there’s nothing or even especially in food business, you’ll always be challenging top line sales and delivering numbers. That’s never going to be change. And there’s not one quick mantra to say, Hey, if I do this, I’m going to make profits throughout the year. Just sit down. No, it will challenges. I think that’s the beauty of what this hospitality industry, right? That is today you’re doing this. So we have raised we have raised the bar to this level. It’s very difficult to maintain that to that bar. And then how do we take it to the first day? And that can only happen with teams. And if you don’t have the right team, the right culture, there’s no point. Studies from big Harvard schools or Cornell or hotel schools with 20 to 30 years experience. But if that cannot be let down to the team, you won’t be able to reach destination.

Ashish Tulsian

That is, that is beautiful. I think I think a lot of a lot of what he’s saying is very coherent. And because I can I can probably see the true, you know, not only the people first approach, but but, you know, also you know, also the vision of why to empower the right because empowerment of the people as a virtue or rather as a strategy. Yeah. You know, is it’s just words. Yeah. You know, unless you have a reason to empower them. Unless unless they also know. Why do they need empowerment? Because because they also you know, people don’t want ownership. And by people, I mean, anybody in the world does not want ownership unless they know what to do with it. And why do they need ownership? What what is going to be the end result and goal of it? And not only for them, like for for, let’s say, the community the team the family that they’re serving, unless they know exactly what to do with that, ownership is unnecessary responsibility.

Prashanth Menon

Correct. They will think, why would I have to?

Ashish Tulsian

Yeah if it goes bad, like, I don’t even know. Why did I get into this?

Prashanth Menon

Yeah. And I also see. I’ve done this mistake in the past as a long back. Like, if they had to fail on certain things, I sometimes give up on that person. I’ve done that in the past, but I realize it’s not the case. You don’t give up on any any leadership. You don’t give up on anybody because they would have something which they have learned through that mistake, you know, and I do is sometimes that I don’t see that mistake as an opportunity. And when the needs of the hour when somebody fails is when you need somebody to be behind you right. Like say, for example, there was a task.

Ashish Tulsian

But you qualified that. Right? I mean, can you do that with everyone?

Prashanth Menon

Not with everyone, but at least if you’re giving that confidence and if you’re giving that atmosphere around them, you know what? You’re making a mistake. There’s no problem.

Ashish Tulsian

Like a soft landing.

Prashanth Menon

You don’t you don’t have to worry. But if I don’t give them that comfort zone, that even when you’re failure, you would be able to do it. But you have somebody to lean on or to back you up and you come back and tell me where you fail so we’ll do it together. Then it becomes a very different scenario. You know what? This is what the failure happened. And I did this to ensure this happened. Then you took a wow, I’ve learned a lot from you guys. So I think that’s something over the years that I’ve learned and my one my, my, my personal thing is like, you know, I want to, as much as you learn from the industry, people just or most of the leaders is this industry, at one point of time, I feel there wouldn’t be people who want to do this waiting job. They do feel that waiting jobs are not much more lucrative. The millennials are not liking this job anymore. Hmm. How do we teach them? How do you go back to the society? How do you find out that hospitality is still a brilliant business? It’s not. It’s it’s things that you learn for life managing customers or speaking to customers. It’s teaches you patience. It teaches you tolerance. It teaches you how to behave. It it’s mannerism. It teaches you how to be a most humble person. Those kind of stuff is where I think is missing of values. I think in the next generation, it’s difficult. It’s very.

Ashish Tulsian

Difficult. And I can I can I get into your precursor of that, for example, you know, I find that in New York the most. Right. Because in New York and specifically New York, not only U.S.. Yeah, but in New York, everybody’s side hustle is restaurant.

Prashanth Menon

It’s restaurant.

Ashish Tulsian

Right? Because they’re either trying to be a magician or an artist or an actor or somebody that they’re trying to go and performing arts. So they’re trying to get into even even going through law school or something. Right. And these kids and, you know, these people mostly under 25, they will be doing waiting jobs, mostly four hour shifts, you know, and one is that New York is already fast. Yeah. Like the speed of walking and talking. Yeah. Both are like beyond you. Right. Yeah. And then the missing warmth is an understatement. I have been waited by like people who did not even bother to look me in the eye. Like, yeah, tell me what what you on order. And I was like here. Well, yeah. And they’re disappeared and they’re like, all right, call me when you’re ready. And I was like, where did this guy disappear? And I said, They have only 4 hours. It’s a side hustle. They don’t really care neither about the restaurant nor about you, not about the food. Nobody cares. Correct. That’s that’s actually that’s a real threat to hospitality, per se.

Prashanth Menon

And, you know, this is where I’m thinking I have something planned and I’m thinking maybe I’m thinking big is how could I spoke a couple of friends in the industry and it’s like, can we go to some smaller countries, a small place like Madagascar or anywhere, and these underprivileged children who who who want to come up with the carreer in life Is there something that we can go and teach basic skills on or if it’s going to be on Teams talk about hospitality hey, waiting job is good. You can do this as a job, as a profession, career. We can take you through this and stuff like that. So that could be something from the industry itself to lead and bring out those people into this into this into this industry. Because at some point maybe they will not be there for long, but at least I’ll be a stepping stone. So they learn something in their lives where they don’t know about the industry. Like, I don’t know anything about hospitality industry, but some of them, yes, as you rightly mentioned in New York, they’re going for studies, but their main focus is something else and it’s a hustle. But there could be so many people who don’t know this industry and who are going to the wrong side of the business where they’re going in poverty is there for them. And they’re going into, you know, drugs and, you know, stealing and stuff. But if you can teach certain things, yes, it’s there that a lot of programs. But I don’t think there’s much being done so I want to contribute something. And that’s what I really am looking for. The next is to contribute in that space and see if I can go and teach them those soft skills. And bring them into Pizza Express. Work with us as a brand. It’s not about salary, but as an end career for you to go.

Ashish Tulsian

And, you know, and also the exposure, right? I mean, exposure is just exactly.

Prashanth Menon

And same thing with CSR as well. I mean, you wouldn’t believe I’m not I’m taking a lot of time, but I just want to share this as well, you know, pizza express as I told you, Right. I Mean you bring in that small, small culture. You wouldn’t believe I still have tears when I talk about this is, you know, we had, you know, every every team member gets a small tip here in the system. Right. And this particular restaurant and the thing whatever tip they collect, they take a small portion and put it into the kitty and they have a kitty over there. And what the teams were doing in the store level was one of the managers going to Nepal. And he’s from Nepal and all that. He spoke to other restaurant managers and all the team members and everybody. He goes, I’m going to Nepal. This is within the store level. I’m not hearing about this. I don’t know this has happened. I only hear this after it happened. And what they did was they collected the tips, whatever that they have, they get and they go to this place in Nepal and they had an earthquake. And after the earthquake that schools were all gone, they lost everything. So they went and got an entire kit for their physical education department, like football, football nets and shoes. And for the science and computer science. They bought six computers and lab so that is coming in from the thought of a store manager to waiters just everybody in the team.

Ashish Tulsian

Everybody is contributing.

Prashanth Menon

All contribute and support. I’m going to Nepal. I have this not about publicity, but they put that smile on the face. I was thinking if if they could think this level, why couldn’t I think in that CSR, this is 5-6 years back and recently. So today now we as a company and I’m within ourselves we have collected almost 40 to 50,000 dirhams purely from the thought of the staff the staff sometimes there are only five and six dirhams and now with credit card tips is not there but out of that five and six dirhams they still contribute one the to that from their level so it’s not about I got my tips I’m going to make me extra money. But if everybody should accept the challenge and the thought and to bring that into the system if they have helped people who wanted to have a kidney transplant in Philippines they have gone to a small village and they have for three days three days food, schooling, kids, everything, for school so that’s something CSR that’s within the company. That’s nothing to do with marketing to put on our Instagram feed saying Pizza Express we are doing CSR.

Ashish Tulsian

But you know what? Even for that matter. I think even that should happen. I personally feel that, you know.

Prashanth Menon

I don’t believe in this personally because I feel like.

Ashish Tulsian

No, I believe in it because.

Prashanth Menon

Unless it is naturally taken. Like, you know, for example, if your boss example, like if your boss is your recognition and your talent, he will recognize that I don’t have to show it in the same analogy that I’m looking at. If the CSR is captured somewhere, that’s fine, but I do not want to go and propagandized and talk about it.

Ashish Tulsian

Absolutely. And I agree with you because at a personal level, I’m also that. But at the same time, I do believe very strongly that, you know, when you do good deeds like this and you talk about it in public, people get ideas. They also get motivated to do that because like you said. Right. You did not have this idea until you saw your staff doing there are many people out there who don’t have that idea because they’re just caught up in the race every day. And when they see, hey, you know what, this is very good. This is actually interesting. We can also I want to go to this. Yeah, it’s always good.

Prashanth Menon

That’s interesting. I’ll keep that in mind. But yeah, I I totally agree. But the objective was I wanted to do that. So I think this focus is all about, you know, sometimes it’s all about that work stream, you know, one is getting your results achieved and I think the best other one is to be with the team. I love to be with the team, that space is where I’m more comfortable because these are the guys are delivering your own success. And this seems like I mean, if I can contribute to their success, that’s one thing that’ll be personal and professional.

Ashish Tulsian

One last question. What’s keeping you excited today, but what are you looking forward to, you know, in the next couple of years? What’s cooking in your head?

Prashanth Menon

A good question. So I’m 50 right? I’m 50 right now. And my son just got graduated and I realized that.

Ashish Tulsian

You don’t look you don’t look that I don’t know anyway and we will chat about the portion that you’re drinking later. But go on.

Prashanth Menon

So so I think a future is about as I said in the beginning is is how what what best level that I can contribute within this industry.

Ashish Tulsian

Right now anything that you can share that that’s cooking in your head like what’s that what’s that. Northstar even if even if not tactical what’s what’s exciting you right now.

Prashanth Menon

I think we have a brilliant opportunity from a business point of view. OK, yeah. From a business point of view. Purely feel that we want to scale up in this region. I really want to take up this region and scale up to at least us having 70-80 restaurants and be a part of the bigger goal. But the brand wants to do at least thousand restaurants in the next four years and I want to contribute at least for the region for 100. And that’s the biggest goal is I see myself going that’s on a professional level. In a personal level. As I said, I want to do a lot of I mean I wouldn’t say a lot of charity work but I, I want to support as much as people I can. I’m sponsoring six children for the education back in India and if there’s more that I can do by teaching, as I said making sure that I can put that smile on their faces, that’s when I’m looking at.

Ashish Tulsian

That is beautiful. I will say you know, all the best and a lot of good intentions and wishes for your goal to contribute, you know, more than 10% to the bigger goal of the ship. Yeah. And you know, to the personal goal, I would say that I’m personally inspired.

Prashanth Menon

Thank you so much.

Ashish Tulsian

Prashanth it was great talking to you. Extremely engaging.

Prashanth Menon

It was a pleasure talking to you and I know I wish I could have a more conversation with you and have you come back to Dubai please do catch up and there’s lots to talk.

Ashish Tulsian

100% so thank you. Thank you.

Prashanth Menon

Thanks so much. Thank you.