Joseph Unger:

Hello, Joe Unger with GOSH Enterprises, President and COO.

 

Ashish Tulsian:

Why did you say inevitable entrepreneurship that happened to you?

 

Joseph Unger:

When I was growing up, I had some close friends that owned their own business. They owned 50 Subway restaurants, and I saw that entrepreneur inside of him. He started with one, and that’s something that really was encouraging to me. The Taco Bell, I started as a general manager for a little bit. Ran a store at a very high level. Got the opportunity to be an area coach. Did that for a few years. Then I got the opportunity to be a market leader. Eventually, an opportunity to run a couple of states as a growth leader, region leader.

 

Ashish Tulsian:

How did your leadership style evolve over the last 10 years?

 

Joseph Unger:

Yeah, well, how I changed is I had some great people that helped me become a better leader. In life, if you have the right people around you, and you’re willing to do the right things and listen, you can have a great career.

 

Ashish Tulsian:

Hi, welcome to Restrocast. Today, my guest is Joseph Unger. He’s a COO of Gosh Enterprise, running Lenny’s Grill and Subs. Joseph is an interesting journey. A Subway entrepreneur, a corporate-trained operator at Taco Bell, a crazy start of experience at Reef, and now bringing Charlie’s vision at Gosh, shouldering the responsibility of an entrepreneur with him. Joseph’s journey, however crazy and interesting, what it shows is commitment and gratitude all along. Tune in. Welcome to Restrocast. So, Joe, welcome to Restrocast, and thank you for getting to do this.

You know, you are, what you’re doing right now tells me that you’re already doing a lot with Gosh Enterprises, with all the, you know, brands that you’re looking after, and apart from Lenny’s, you know, as you were telling me. We would like to hear all about that, but we would like to start from the start. What got you here? What were the early years like, and how did you land up in restaurant industry?

 

Joseph Unger:

Yeah, well, first, thank you for having me. I’m honored to be here. A lot of great people before me, and I’m sure after me. So, from the start, from the jump, I was younger in my younger years as a sandwich artist, and that’s how I started in the business. And then what happened was, is went to school, decided to inevitably be an entrepreneur, had an opportunity to start my own Subway, and become in the franchise. Where did you go, and where did you grow up?

 

Oh, I grew up in Indiana. So, I grew up in Indiana, the good Midwest state. We had, you know, I think it’s a great place to raise a family. The, you know, long story short, my dad’s from Brooklyn, and he decided it wasn’t where he wanted to raise me, and we moved to Indiana shortly after I was born. After that, I just kind of stayed there for 18 years, didn’t move around much. Had a couple stints in Phoenix, Arizona when I was younger, but inevitably, it was Indiana where we ended up. So, then again, that’s after Indiana, was recruited to play baseball. So, I went to Tampa, played baseball for the University of Tampa, and after that, I decided to move back home to Indiana, and that’s where the entrepreneurship began. So, that’s, you know, long story short, how I grew up.

 

Ashish Tulsian:

But what, like, how come, why did you say inevitable, you know, entrepreneurship that happened to you?

 

Joseph Unger:

When I was growing up, I had some close friends that owned their own business. They owned 50 Subway restaurants, and I saw that entrepreneur inside of him, and that’s where I kind of began my career younger, kind of learning from him, seeing him in his business, what he did. He started with one, and that’s something that really was encouraging to me. I saw the opportunity to work hard, do good works, inspire people, and build a business and an enterprise myself. So, that’s, when I went to college, that is what I was hoping to do. So, I had my major in business and law. I really liked the law field as well, but something was always tugging on me, and I think it was more on the people side. I think, you know, the study of law is great, but at the end of the day, it’s the people side that I think drew me into the business and entrepreneurship of restaurants. Being able to impact the people has been, you know, really my lifelong journey.

 

Ashish Tulsian:

And you, when you came back to Indiana, you started your first Subway franchisee?

 

Joseph Unger:

Yes, sir. Yes, sir. That was 2007, 2008, when I came back, just graduated college, got the opportunity in Evansville, Indiana. There was an opportunity to continue to grow there. There were some franchisees that wanted to sell off, and it was a 20-unit market. I thought, man, this is a great opportunity. Get one and continue to build. Unfortunately, it wasn’t God’s plan. The franchisee unit that we thought were going to sell us all the units decided to start growing again.

And so when you go up against having one and then the rest of them that have 10 to 20, that makes it really tough from a financial standpoint to go and get more when you’re getting competition from some other investors. So that’s, we decided, my business partner and I decided at that time to say, hey, what do you want to do? And at that time, I thought it was the best thing. There was a lot of things going on with Subway. It was during the Jared time. It was right after the Jared time that we saw some decline in sales. And so I thought it was a great opportunity to get out. And that’s when Yum Brands came to the table and started my Yum Brands career.

 

Ashish Tulsian:

How about, given that you saw your friend early on, your inspiration was somebody who was owning multiple Subways, but when you became that owner of the franchisee, do you recall how, what was your early experience? Was it shocking that it looked better from outside and inside was much more difficult? Or was it like, what were the early, what was the early reaction or sentiment when you became that franchisee owner?

 

Joseph Unger:

Yeah, I would say that it set everything I did in business after becoming a franchise owner. What I mean by that is being an owner, it sets the bar so high because it’s one of those things where, and you know, everything falls on you. The people coming through the door, they expect the best in class. You got to control the margins that stay in business. And then you also have to grow it. And when I have went through my career, being able to say, hey, I’ve done it as a franchisee, I’ve done it as a franchisor, it gives you some credibility. I think from a business standpoint, being a franchisee, you’re investing everything you have. You are taking that ownership of, hey, this is my life. This is something that I believe in and I need to make right.

What I will tell you, what you don’t realize is how small the margins are. The margins in the restaurant industry, and this is 20 years ago, they continue to shrink. This is back when labor was $5. 

 

Ashish Tulsian:

But you think that 20 years back margins were thin? 

 

Joseph Unger:

I think 20 years back margins were thin. I think margins have continued to get thinner. But even 20 years ago…

 

Ashish Tulsian:

No, today margins are really, really bad. And that is owing to a lot of changes that happen in the world, right? From third-party deliveries to packaging to digital marketing and whatnot, right? But 20 years back, you actually thought those margins were thin?

 

Joseph Unger:

I think they were thin. I think it’s always… When you look at the labor model and the COGS model back when you were a franchisee 20 years ago, you’re trying to run it 2020, 2025.  So you’re trying to get 45%. You know, now today you’re starting to do 25, 25 or 30, 30 on COGS and labor because of the price inflation. But even then, I think margins were thin. Now, much better comparable. But you had to work hard even then to reduce labor and keep that food cost down. Because the fixed cost is the fixed cost. Every franchisee makes their money on really eliminating excess on the food cost and labor. So yeah, I’d say it was hard then too. It hasn’t changed on that aspect.

 

Ashish Tulsian:

Got it. And so you got out of Subway. And what do you mean by Yum came and your Yum career started?

 

Joseph Unger:

Yeah, so I was recruited by Yum Brands, specifically the Taco Bell world. Got a call from them and thought, hey, might be time. Might be time. I’m a big believer of God kind of puts things in your path. You get a choice to then choose that path. And I had some good conversations with some leadership at Yum and decided, hey, I believe in what they’re doing over there. And I thought it would be a good growth avenue for my career. I had done the franchise, had the franchisee opportunity. I thought maybe it’s time to go learn.

 

Ashish Tulsian:

So what did you join? What were you doing at Taco Bell?

 

Joseph Unger:

So Taco Bell, I went in, started as a general manager for a little bit. Wanted to learn the systems, the tools. And I remember the conversation with the two leaders at the time. They said, hey, we want you to come in, learn the four walls, the economics of that, and then continue to grow. I believed in my ability then. So went in, ran a store at a very high level. And then got the opportunity to be an area coach. Did that for a few years. Then I got the opportunity to be basically a market leader. And then eventually an opportunity to run a couple of states as what they call a growth leader, region leader type of opportunity.

 

Ashish Tulsian:

So how long were you at Taco Bell?

 

Joseph Unger:

About 10 years. 

 

Ashish Tulsian:

Which year to which year? 

 

Joseph Unger:

So 2011 to 2020. So it was a good, it was a great run. If you remember, during that time, Taco Bell was taking off. They had just gotten done with some other things in 2008, 2009. That was some down years. But in 2011, the brand introduced Dorito Taco, then went into Breakfast, and they haven’t stopped. Year after year growth, transaction growth. They’ve been a juggernaut of Yum. I think I saw that they’re 80% of Yum’s profitability. I think I read that.

 

Ashish Tulsian:

Really? 

 

Joseph Unger:

And it doesn’t surprise me because they were always the golden child. And so Taco Bell grew and grew and I had an opportunity to do the right thing and grow myself there. So it gave me the corporate setting that I was missing from the franchise setting. Because as a franchisee, especially with Subway, you’re kind of told, you know, this is what it is. You sign away your life and here’s the agreement. And then they support you in multiple efforts as a franchisor. Now, this on the corporate side became the person supporting the brand, but also supporting the people in the brand at a much higher level. So I had about 100 restaurants at one time. That was where I ended up ending Taco Bell. And it was a great run at it.

 

Ashish Tulsian:

And what is your, like, what is your responsibility, you know, for these 100 restaurants you talk about?

 

Joseph Unger:

Yeah, overseeing the P&L, making sure that we did… 

 

Ashish Tulsian:

These are franchisees? 

 

Joseph Unger:

These are corporate. So all corporate restaurants. We had, so really understanding the ins and outs of their P&L, leading people at the end of the day, leading different levels from, you know, team members all the way up to what they call, you know, city leaders, area coaches, district managers, and leading a group of individuals to, you know, collectively lead the corporate system. So at Yum, at Taco Bell, we always believe that we lead from the front as a franchisor. So we had high expectations of our restaurants to do that.

 

Ashish Tulsian:

Joe, how did you… These are, you know, I think 10 years is a great, great run. And I’m given that, you know, you started in 2007, 8. This has been the largest part of the career, formative as well as, you know, solidified. How did your leadership style evolve over the last 10 years at Taco Bell? 

 

Joseph Unger:

Yeah, wow.

 

Ashish Tulsian:

What did you learn? Like, how did you change as a person from Joe of 2011 to Joe of 2020?

 

Joseph Unger:

Yeah, well, how I changed is I had some great people that helped me become a better leader. I think in life, if you have the right people around you, and you’re willing to do the right things and listen, and then go show action and do, you can have a great career. And for me, I had some great people in front of me. Tim Bisbacci was, he oversaw all the corporate restaurants for Taco Bell during a stretch. Mike Grahams, who was the COO and president for quite some time, just recently leaving. Those guys took a hold of me early on in my career and said, hey, we’ve been here. You know, they saw a lot of me in them, or them in me, and, you know, really made sure that I was given every opportunity to learn under them. I think some other people that, you know, Greg Creed with Yum, just being able to be around him. And then also, you know, from a growth standpoint, just getting the opportunity to go and, you know, to different forums and be more intimate with some of the biggest and largest leaders at Yum. So David Gibbs invited me out to California, where it was just a select group of leaders. That was a big, big thing in my career, where I listened to all the KFC, the Taco Bell, the Pizza Hut, internationally and domestically. And it makes you realize that this world is big. And sometimes we get stuck in almost tunnel vision when we are performing our job and our duties each day. So that leadership team really elevated me to think much bigger than, you know, 100 stores. And there’s much more out there.

 

Ashish Tulsian:

And what is it that you, you know, if it’s about the people, what did you learn from each of them? Like just, you know, any anecdotes that you can share?

 

Joseph Unger:

Yeah. Well, Greg Creed was, he was all about smart, heart and courage. That’s kind of, that was kind of his biggest thing that he talked about, you know, having the ability to be smart, be knowledgeable, IQ and EQ. The heart piece was having empathy for your people, but also holding them accountable to make them their best selves, right? And help support that. The courage piece with Greg Creed was really around the ability to make a decision when everybody in the room would maybe go against you because you thought and believed it was the right decision.

Having the courage to stand up and say, I believe this is the way. And that’s kind of one of the biggest things of Greg Creed. I think the other thing was leading people, you know, Mike Grams, Tim Bisbacci, how you lead people. So people want to follow you at the end of the day as a leader. Why do they want to follow you? What are you doing when nobody else is looking? What are you promoting? What are you permitting? Saying what you’re, you know, saying what you will do and then the action to do it. You know, Mike Grams and Tim Bisbacci were both big on the people piece and they would elevate people by getting the most out of them because of a belief in them. Like believing in them, they believed in you.

 

Ashish Tulsian:

How do you bring this practice to your, you know, day to day? Because, you know, even also people who have short term goals, who, you know, at times are not aligned with what you think or what organization thinks is right for them, including, you know, there are times when they are, they just don’t know what is right for them. And, you know, they act out of their compulsions, you know, and I’m not even talking about, you know, acting bad. I’m just saying, you know, there’s a vision mismatch where what do you think of, you know, what is important for the organization or for the work or for the role or for the career? That person in question, you know, is not aligned with that. They have their own, you know, way of life. How do you bring this to this philosophy to life? Like, can you give me an anecdote?

 

Joseph Unger:

Yeah, I think having a vision and then sharing that vision and bringing people to that vision with you. And that’s a lot of conversations. That is a lot of, I would say, people want to be a part of something. Like, that’s how we were made. We want to be a part of whether it’s a company or whether it’s other things in life. They want to belong and they have to understand the whys. So, from a company standpoint, from a leadership standpoint, really investing in telling people the whys behind it, giving and spending the time to, you know, talk about those. That’s how people start to belong and start to share the same vision. If they don’t understand the whys, then it’s really hard. Then they’re just marching orders. So, for me, it’s really the connecting piece and then also being available or my team being available to help support those conversations. Meaning, if there is confusion or if there is people that do not want to, you know, go down that plan or that vision, let’s understand the whys. And I think that’s a big thing on bringing people with you, is having the honest conversations and the accountability, but discussing the whys.

 

Ashish Tulsian:  (20:34)

What happened after Taco Bell?

 

Joseph Unger:

Taco Bell. So, after Taco Bell was a change. I had somebody at Taco Bell give a name, give my name to a person who was leading Reef Technology at the time. And Reef Technology was this new age type of system that was around the power of proximity. So, after a series of interviews there, understanding that it was something new, something different, I decided to go to Reef. Now, that is food trucks, event space, robots, technology, internationally, domestically, you name it, they were doing it. And it was during COVID. So, it was during a time where the world was trying to figure out how can we adapt to the current environment. And that’s what Reef was about. Reef was adapting to the current environment and it was sped up through COVID. They were already doing it. But how do you adapt?

 

Ashish Tulsian:

What is your role at Reef? 

 

Joseph Unger:

So, Reef was the CEO of the Wendy’s campaign, where we had signed a deal of 700 units. That we were supposed to…

 

Ashish Tulsian:

These are cloud kitchens only, ghost kitchens only.

 

Joseph Unger:

So, it was ghost kitchens, it was cloud kitchens, it was food trucks, it was any type of unit. And what a unit was described as was anything non-trad. So, that was the Wendy’s piece. And then what we also were doing at the same time was trying to figure out ways to come out of COVID. So, Reef looks today much different than it did during COVID.

 

Ashish Tulsian:

And that actually is my next question. Do you believe in purely virtual brands run in ghost kitchens? Do you believe in the model?

 

Joseph Unger:

So, I believe in the model. Simple answer. I believe in the model. I think it works differently domestically than it does internationally. I think internationally, you have a lot of brands that are trying to create a footprint. And this footprint and NodTrap is available. For example, with Wendy’s, we had really good success on the international side. And on the domestic side, it was not as successful. Why? Because there’s 7,000 Wendy’s or 8,000 Wendy’s. Internationally, it was a good way to get in. And the brand was in demand. And you can go and put in restaurants for $150,000, $200,000 instead of these big brick and mortar build outs that are quite expensive. So, I do believe that there’s the ability to bring brands and to grow.

 

Ashish Tulsian:

But I think, I mean, from the margin perspective, model did not pan out well. And I’m not talking about Reef or Wendy’s. I’m just talking about ghost kitchens only as a model in general for the world. US, international, everywhere. I think wherever brands were only dependent on ghost kitchen as a model, UNO economics never made sense.

 

Joseph Unger:

But so, look at brands, for example, like Yum. Yum had what they call TPXs. So, when I think about ghost brands, let me back up. The ability to have multi brands in a space has been something the industry has seen. At Reef, we were putting multiple brands into a food truck or a ghost kitchen. I think their ability to do that is still there. When you look at, now I’ll go back to TPXs, whether it was Pizza Hut and Taco Bells, whether it was Baskin Robbins and the other brand that they were putting, you know, Baskin Robbins with, and I forget. But I think there’s an opportunity to create multi brand concepts, which was one of the things that Reef and I, and honestly, ghost kitchens, Kitchens United, they were doing, they were putting multiple brands. And what that does is it gives you the opportunity to not only sell third party, which is 40 to 60% of some P&Ls, right? The digital piece allows you to have smaller overhead, training of multiple brands and better profit margins. So, I do think the opportunity is there from that aspect. When you talk about just ghost kitchens in general, yeah, there is some work that needs to be done there.

 

Ashish Tulsian:

Did you get a chance to explore international with Reef?

 

Joseph Unger:

Yeah. So, I was able to, so opened up UK, so London, Birmingham, Manchester. We were kind of getting into the Spain territory, Canada. So, we had Ottawa, Toronto, Quebec. So, we were moving in there, Calgary. That was probably one of the most interesting times in my career, doing international work. Because I had been on the domestic side for so long with Subway and Taco Bell. But this international work really helped me.

 

Ashish Tulsian:

Was it your first time? Was it also your first time experiencing international that way? 

 

Joseph Unger:

Yes, sir. Yep. So, the Reeve technology was, again, an eye opener for me, not only from a tech side and how you can do things differently, but from an international work standpoint too. But I will tell you, people are people. And one thing I learned about the international work is, again, people, they want good culture. They want the right brands to work with. They want the right vision. And I really enjoyed the opportunity to lead people from afar on the international side. My London team that I had was one of my favorite teams of all times. I had a great Canada team. So, I really enjoyed that aspect.

 

Ashish Tulsian:

International also, you were taking care of Wendy’s?

 

Joseph Unger:

Wendy’s and some of the Reef pieces too. We were growing the Wendy’s rapidly. With the Reef technology piece, we were still growing there. So, my title was SPP of Reef technology. So, I still had my hand in doing as much as I could for the company as a whole. But my real focus was around the Wendy’s endeavor.

 

Ashish Tulsian:

What did, I don’t know if it’s the right question to ask or not, but what went wrong with, where did Reef lose the path of all the innovation that they were doing? And it certainly went down south quite fast, right?

 

Joseph Unger:

Yeah, I think, again, I alluded to it earlier. I think after COVID, the adjustment period to do things, we did a great job and grew rapidly during COVID. And then coming out of COVID, it was tough. A lot of the people went back to the brick and mortars. And we were trying to figure out, again, how to adapt to that. I believe there’s still great international work going on with Reef. I think that team is still strong with some of the leadership that I still know over there. The domestic piece was tough. And that’s where we had a lot of success during COVID. And then outside of COVID, it was a little bit tougher.

 

Ashish Tulsian:

What was the biggest competitor in those days for Reef?

 

Joseph Unger:

Pride Kitchens United, that was a big one. I know we were in growth, that was one of them. I think another one was GoPuff that was trying to do the same. Looking back, those are the three, but Kitchen United was the one.

 

Ashish Tulsian:

And then what happened after Reef?

 

Joseph Unger:

So as Reef was, as some of the domestic things were happening, I got a phone call from some recruiters. I work with a great recruiting team that gave me a call and said, hey, there’s somebody that you might want to talk to. And I said, okay. And he was a, you know, philanthropist, God-man, God-led and decided that it was time to maybe take a different approach, get back into the franchise or system. And so I took a phone call and that’s where I met Charlie and GOSH Enterprises.

 

Ashish Tulsian:

And how did that go? When? Why did you join? What was the role offered? And you know, what’s up? What are you doing here?

 

Joseph Unger:

So I got an opportunity originally to interview for a concept called Bebebop. Bebebop had that opportunity to be the president for that company. I really enjoyed the well-being aspect of the Asian food. The vision was to continue to grow it from a franchise or standpoint, meaning from corporate only.

 

Ashish Tulsian:

So it’s a GOSH Enterprise 

 

Joseph Unger:

Yep. GOSH Enterprise brand developed by Charlie and his team. And it’s been around for over 10 years. It’s only in three states, Illinois, Ohio, and Indiana, and we’re continuing to grow it, but it’s corporate. So it’s kind of like the Chipotle model, right? We have no intentions on making that available for franchisees, but it’s a great brand. As I was interviewing for that and felt really good about that. He also had a few other concepts, Charlie’s Cheesesteaks, which has been around for nearly 40 years that he founded himself. And then Lenny’s Grill and Sub, which he bought right before COVID. So we had some good discussions and inevitably said, Hey, would you want to go do the Lenny’s Grill and Sub? And I said, of course. I said, I’m here because of you. I’m here because I believe in the purpose and the brands.

And so that’s where I was, where I started. So I went over there and started with the Lenny’s Grill and Sub as their president and COO. And at the same time, I wanted to help him at GOSH Enterprise, build his tech stack and build his different pieces of the business. So then working on both sides to help support GOSH Enterprises in totality while also directly influencing the Lenny’s Grill and Sub.

 

Ashish Tulsian:

And how long has it been with GOSH?

 

Joseph Unger:

Yeah, almost two years. It’ll be two years in June. We’ve had some, you know, 2024 in the restaurant industry. Wasn’t a great year for too many. So we battled almost. Bebebop did well. Charlie’s and Lenny’s, neck and neck, just a little bit down for the year. But overall…

 

Ashish Tulsian:

Where are most of these restaurants based?

 

Joseph Unger:

Charlie’s is international and domestic. So I believe nine different countries. We have 874 restaurants, military bases. So that’s Charlie’s. Lenny’s is in 11 different states, basically an L-shape from Kansas City all the way to Florida, Kansas City, Texas to Florida, and then BB Bop in those three states I mentioned earlier, Illinois, Ohio, and Indiana. So again, we have a big footprint at the Charlie’s. Cheesesteaks and Wings now, because we just rolled out Wings last year as well. So I say Charlie’s Cheesesteaks, but it’s actually Charlie’s Cheesesteaks and Wings as we went through that endeavor last year and transitioned all of our 874 stores to that.

 

Ashish Tulsian:

Joe, it’s a very interesting transition, because I look at institutions like Yum. I don’t want to call it stiff, but I would call it stiff. I think I look at organizations like Yum, that they have a process, they have a structure, and they are built to last. They’re super successful at such large restaurant base, because they go by the plan. And then you come to, gosh, well, I’m assuming where the founder is still at the play. And that tells me that things will always not be that stringent. That means the agility and the flexibility also comes with its own problem, which is all is always not process-driven or structure-driven, for good or for bad. How are you maneuvering this? And what part of your Taco Bell upbringing you’re bringing here? And what part you’re also trying to undo or unlearn?

 

Joseph Unger:

Yeah. So that is a great question. And it’s one that I get asked very often by some of the industry people.

 

Ashish Tulsian:

Yes, for sure. 

Joseph Unger:

Taco Bell, you say stiff. Taco Bell is led in a way that you get the marching orders, and you have some availability on building cultures, but you also have very limited ability on tools and systems. It is built for you already. I got to have an opportunity with Taco Bell that was the first time in my career where I felt like I was building something for yum. I remember back in 2016, the brand came to me, the big leaders in Taco Bell, Mike Grams, and they wanted me to roll out this all access for yum. Essentially, it was going to go through Taco Bell first. And what all access was, it was their digital platform. So the opportunity to roll out kiosk before, now everybody has kiosk. But back in 16, kiosk were very, very small footprint. Digital menu boards, digital drive-through boards, third party. So that came all from Indiana.

And what inevitably happened is I had the opportunity to build that with the technology team and the operations team. And we set up a playbook to roll that out for yum brands. Now from there, 2017 rolled out, we rolled out our partnerships with DoorDash and Grubhub and Uber Eats, and we were off and running. That was a big part of some of the growth with Taco Bell. But I had that itch. I was like, wow, to actually do something at a broad scale. And I look back now and I see kiosk at every, almost every yum pizza taco. I’m like, I was a part of that. I was a part of building that. And that’s what intrigued me on the Reef technology piece. And when I went to Reef, it was all about building, building the future. I remember starting that seven in the morning and not leaving my Miami office until two or three in the morning. And the founder is there with us. The big leaders all are in a room trying to figure out to stay ahead of the curve. And that was some of my favorite times in my career, because you have an opportunity to build. And then GOSH is the same way. GOSH is founder led as well. And we’re building. We don’t, we have an opportunity to have a thousand restaurants here in the next few months. There’s not many places, right? Not many brands that have a thousand. Very small footprint when you look at it. I like to think GOSH is one of those unheard of brands or enterprises. And you don’t realize there’s a thousand there. And Charlie’s done a really good job over the last 39 plus years to build that. So for me, the answer to that is I had a little piece of that with Taco Bell. It intrigued me enough to go to Reef. And then it intrigued me enough to continue to be with a founder led company. It’s different though. It is different. Corporate is much different than the founder.

 

Ashish Tulsian:

What’s that? Give me one nuance. I mean, we all know that theoretically, you know, we all know that. But in practice, given, you know, you’re running this brand with the founder, where is that, where’s that difference where you have to adjust? 

 

Joseph Unger:

Yeah. Speed. With founder, with Reef and with GOSH, if we want to do something, we want to do it. We go. Like, if it’s a conversation with me and the team, we say, hey, this is where we need to go. And there’s not a lot of different conversations happening after that. I feel at the Yum brands, especially being a parent company, right. With all the different energy entities, there’s a lot of different hoops you got to go through. And something that maybe could take six months takes a year or longer. Founder led, like the idea, new menu. For example, we’re getting ready to roll. We just rolled out Charlie’s cheesesteaks and wings. That happened within three months. And you have to get to the franchisee system to believe and have that vision as well. But it can move really quick, founder led.

 

Ashish Tulsian:

Does that make your life great, bad, worse?

 

Joseph Unger:

Interesting. Interesting. I would say interesting. If you ask me, what do I like more? I like being on this side. I like being on the, on the, you know, moving a little faster. I love my years with corporate. I love my years with Yum. But the, the founder led is different and it’s not for everybody. It is not for everybody. People get hired in the founder led companies. They, they don’t last, you know, it could be three months. It could be six months, but speed is much different. Expectation is a little different, especially if you have founder led companies because it’s theirs. And I would say speed and expectation and really expectation around speed. That is something that’s much different in the founder.

 

Ashish Tulsian:

Joe, what’s happening on the family side?

 

Joseph Unger:

Wow. Yeah. I got a 17 year old niece who we adopted when she was nine. She’s getting ready to go to college here in the next year. So we’re looking at colleges really excited for her and that. And then I got a nine year old, a seven year old, a four year old. So for me on the family side, it’s a day by day instilling in them a few things. God, right? Love God, love others.

And if I can do that as a dad, then I can, I can check the box. We, my wife and I are, you know, I would say better than ever as we we’ve been together 21 years and we’ve been married now for going on 11. We are still you know, love each other very deeply and very attracted to one another. And life’s been good on that side. Family is everything to me. I grew, I grew up with a small family. I lost, lost some family members. I lost my dad, I lost my sister. So it’s just me and my mom. And so for me, I take that, you know, my experiences and say family’s number one, always. So if I love God, I love my family. The rest will follow.

 

Ashish Tulsian:

How do they feel about the rigor and the madness of, you know, working with the founder, the, this role versus, you know, your 10 years at corporate? In short, the amount of time that you had must be much less or is it just an assumption?

 

Joseph Unger:

Yeah, no, that’s a, that’s an accurate statement. So for me, when I was on the corporate side, it was, it was a little bit of travel, but mostly would be home every night. Now you work long hours in the restaurant industry. That’s what I signed up for. I know that. However, in the founder, the last four or five years now, it’s been a lot of travel. Whether it was internationally or domestically, it’s just been a lot of travel. You know, when you get all the perks, but you’re not really proud of them, right? You get the, the American airline perks, you get the Hilton or Marriott. And you look at those at the end of the year and you’re like, you know, that’s a lot of time away from the family. But they are, they’re getting bigger and they’re getting older and they’re now starting to realize that dad’s gone more. But I love what I do. I love the people I’m able to impact. And although it’s a sacrifice for my family, they understand the sacrifice that dad has to make.

 

Ashish Tulsian:

Would you want any of your kids to join restaurant industry?

 

Joseph Unger:

So if my kids wanted to join the industry, I would tell them, hey, how about a day in the life of dad first and see how they, that would interest them. But for me, I would tell them to pursue whatever they’re passionate about. This industry is hard. I can’t imagine too many harder than this industry. I think if it was a dad telling his boy or his girl, say, Hey, go do something different. Take it for dad from dad. But again, industry’s great. There’s great people in it. And inevitably that needs to be led by people, you know, hopefully that I’m raising. So for me, the answer is simple, go do something else. But if it’s passionate and you love what dad does, then Hey, go do what you love. But it’s funny to say that they are, you know, they talked to my, my nine-year-old talked to me about profitability the other day in the car, we’re driving to baseball. He says, Hey, dad, profitability, blah, blah, blah, blah. I said, what are you talking about? He said, I heard you like the store needs to make money. So it has to, you know, the labor has to be better and the food has to be better. Maybe I’m raising them to be restaurant. 

 

Ashish Tulsian:

Yeah. You know, sub subconscious training is going on. 

 

Joseph Unger:

Correct. So I would tell them if they’re going to do it, though, go be an entrepreneur, go be an entrepreneur. I think for me, if I can do something for them, it would be to own, it would be to go out, own it, do it, grow it, have an enterprise, and then be able to teach them inside of it. That would be the most ideal if they want to stay in this industry for me, for me to hand off something that maybe I created that they can make better. That might be the way we go.

 

Ashish Tulsian:

What is it that you you’re working with Charlie, you know, alongside and, you know, as, as somebody who’s, you know, cushioning him or helping him realize his vision in various forms and, you know, in various parts of the business, what is it that you, you know, feel makes entrepreneurs tick? And I’m asking this question because you talked about you, you would want your kids to be, to, to imbibe, to, to learn that. But what is it that you have come to admire about, you know, entrepreneurs and where’s that coming from?

 

Joseph Unger:

I think from a standpoint of, as an entrepreneur, you control your destiny to an extent, right? There’s, there’s things that can happen in this world where it’s not necessarily your fault that a business may fail. But for me, I think the opportunity to control your own destiny to an extent is a great opportunity.

 

Ashish Tulsian:

Do you really think that? Do you really think entrepreneurs control their own destiny? 

 

Joseph Unger:

To an extent. I think that if you pick the right, for example, if, if you pick the right brand, if you do your homework and you have the opportunity to be a franchising system, you can control it to an extent. Now you still have the leaders that are leading the brand. 

 

Ashish Tulsian:

But that’s all hindsight wisdom. I mean, the right brand, the right business, right people. It’s all hindsight. I mean, in the foresight, you just don’t know what you don’t know. I mean, you’re taking the bets. Interestingly, world, like for the successful ones, world only remembers the good bets. So, so they look really visionary and smart. But that’s, that’s not true. I mean, you know, out of the a hundred bets, somebody took only three fly, you know, at least being worthy of talked about, being talked about. 80 fail miserably. So, so why do you think that is, is that, is that entrepreneurs controlling their destiny or is it they just own it, you know, be good or bad?

 

Joseph Unger:

I think owning it good or bad is a reasonable assessment. I think that from a, there’s a risk, there’s risk with entrepreneur. I’m, will always bet on myself. So if you’re going to be an entrepreneur, you know, sometimes the risk is you go to, you make an investment, investment’s not good and it didn’t work out. Maybe it gets you to your next investment. Maybe it gets you to the next thing. I think from a standpoint of working for others, that works too. From a corporate setting or a founder setting, there’s less risk involved there, but there’s different risk. Like at any time, if you’re, you can be let go, right? If I work, you work for a corporate setting or at any time, you could be, Hey, you’ve done great work, but we’re making cuts and there’s a lot of cuts going on. You know, that right now. And there’s some great people who were laid off, whether it was, you know, Starbucks or whether it was Grubhub or any of these businesses, I think you could control your destiny a little bit more as an entrepreneur.

But you got to make some right decisions and you have to have the people around you to help that. It can’t just be you making that decision. I really truly believe in, if you have a solid foundation of individuals around you that can help you make those decisions, then you’re much better off than me just saying, Hey, I’m going to go open up a restaurant because I want to, or because I believe the menu is going to be great. The right people, the right brand and the right advisors, at least gives you a better shot.

 

Ashish Tulsian:

If there was one message that you would want to give sent as a text message to every guest who’s about to walk into Lenny’s, what would that be? What would that text read like? Or what would you want to tell, you know, your prospects or your customers at Lenny’s if you had?

 

Joseph Unger:

Yeah, I think it’s, well, first of all, you thank them, right? Thank them for choosing you. There’s choices out the wazoo now. I mean, there are so many choices in the restaurant. It’s not even fast. It’s fast cash. It’s quick service restaurants. It’s, you know, full dining restaurant experiences that now that you can get 10 to $15. So the first thing would be, thank you for choosing Lenny’s and we are here to serve and make your experience great in any and every way we can. That’s where I would, I would just send the text, just, just an honest, thank you. Not too much, not too little. Thank you for choosing to spend your money with us.

 

Ashish Tulsian:

Gosh, are you, are you doing international? Are you traveling in that?

 

Joseph Unger:

I’m not traveling international today. So that is, that has not been on the table at this time.

 

Ashish Tulsian:

Is there a Charlie’s in Dubai?

 

Joseph Unger:

There, I believe there is. I believe there, either there was or is, I’m not for, not for sure.

 

Ashish Tulsian:

It just occurred to me that I’ve seen it or I’ve been there. Yep. Just occurred to me. So yeah, this, this just popped, but, but anyway, because you said Charlie’s is international. 

 

Joseph Unger:

Yeah. Oh yeah. I believe I’m almost positive that we’re in Dubai.

 

Ashish Tulsian:

Yeah. I think, I think, I think I know where it is and I think I’ve been, I’ve been there. Joe, so what are, what are you, what is, what is it that you’re excited about in trade 25?

 

Joseph Unger:

I’m excited about the opportunity to personalize experiences with guests better. As I mentioned to you earlier is one of the reasons why I came on to GOSH is to help the evolution of, of the brands. And we are really working hard on the tech piece to give a guest experience, personalize the way they want to be personalized, you know, they way they want to experience it. I’ve been said, I’ve said this before is you and I are different. You might like your restaurant experience much different than I will. The brands that are going to win. And what I’m excited for is the brands that are going to personalize more. And that I believe that a GOSH, we have an opportunity.

 

Ashish Tulsian:

And as the personalization, just communication, or is it like in what all facets?

 

Joseph Unger:

All facets. So when you look at personalization, it could be the way you send a text message, the way that they order, the way that the type of ordering, right? It could be drive-thru, the way they personalize and drive-thru, the way we personalize and store, the way we, you know, from a loyalty standpoint, communicate to our guests, segmentation. And then also learning all the CDP behind it, right? Because it’s so much more than just sending out a mass text now. that’s what I’m most excited about because everybody has data now, but who is utilizing the data the best? Those are the people that are going to win. And I really believe it in 2025, we have an opportunity to do that at GOSH.

 

Ashish Tulsian:

Joe, that was, that was a great conversation. Congratulations on, you know, great, you know, career path and the strides that you’ve made. I’m really excited to learn about, you know, what you’re doing at GOSH and, and all the best for that.

 

Thank you for, thank you for being on the pod. 

 

Joseph Unger:

Thank you for having me and I hope it’s a great 2025 for the restaurant industry. 

 

Ashish Tulsian:

Thank you. 

 

Joseph Unger:

Thank you, sir.