Ashish Tulsian

Hi. Welcome to Restrocast. Today, my guest is Fay Economides. Fay is a is one of the most successful restaurateurs in Dubai. She runs two brilliant brands Mythos and Nola, known for Mythos, is known for Greek food. Authentic Greek food or rather I would say authentic Greek food experience. And Nola is what all like the fun and chill is about. Conversation with Fay is special because of multiple reasons, but the first and foremost being Dubai is a market where anybody will tell you that restaurants don’t have a very, very long life. It’s it’s a market where, you know who’s who of the world want to open a restaurant. They do open the restaurant. There’s so much there’s so many new things happening all the time that for restaurateurs, it’s it’s like a treadmill. And Fay is one of those entrepreneurs in this market who built a brand, compounded it over almost a decade. Carries a loyal customer base and and does it with flair. What you’re going to see in the conversation is why. What I found in Fay was somebody who’s in an absolute Zen and at peace with what she’s doing while still carrying the ambition to grow her brand, but not at the cost of eroding the customer experience. Very, very proud of what she has built while maintaining a calm demeanor in where she wants to go. This was a great conversation. I’m sure you’re going to love it. Welcome to this Restrocast. Welcome to Restrocast.

Fay Economides

Thank you for having me. My first podcast. So.

Ashish Tulsian

Oh, this is your first podcast? This is awesome.

Fay Economides

And not a girl one.

Ashish Tulsian

Perfect. Perfect. That’s awesome. That makes it sweeter. I want to talk about, you know, all Mythos and Nola and the good work that you’re doing, but we’ll start from the start. I want to know your early years and where it all started.

Fay Economides

Okay, So I was born in Athens, Greece, which is where I’m from, but at a very early age, we moved out of our home country and the first stop was in Tunisia. So my very first, let’s say memories are from Tunis near the sea with camels and the foods of the Tunisian foods and having a multinational, you know, set of little friends. I remember my kindergarten next to the sea. The first time I heard, you know, the call to prayer. So all of these things were very important milestone from the age of three.

Ashish Tulsian

Why was it international?

Fay Economides

You know, because I was in a kindergarten where a lot of expats were sort of kind of like Dubai’s. It wasn’t obviously as international, but I had I met kids from different backgrounds for the first time at the age of three and the language barrier. So I didn’t speak French. I went and I didn’t speak. I spoke only Greek. And I remember struggling to understand everybody and, you know, feeling a little bit out of my depth, out of my comfort zone.

Ashish Tulsian

At three?

Fay Economides

Three.

Ashish Tulsian

And you remember that like you have memories of that?

Fay Economides

I do. And then I remember just about as I was embracing the changes and getting comfortable and, you know, loving the place we left again. And this time was to Bahrain at age five. Again, language transition, English.

Ashish Tulsian

Oh right. Of course.

Fay Economides

Another, you know, a school, another language, another set of people. So I think from a very young age, I had to be adaptable and, you know, learn how to deal with difficulties and get through these obstacles. And I saw both the painful part of it and the joy of, you know, expanding my experiences, including culinary. Yeah, like the best croissant I’ve ever had in my whole life was in Tunisia. And the last time I had it, I was five years old, but I still can feel it in my taste buds.

Ashish Tulsian

Oh, that, that, that that must hurt.

Fay Economides

I should go back and hunt for this bakery, you know.

Ashish Tulsian

Don’t do that.

Fay Economides

Yeah, I should do that.

Ashish Tulsian

Don’t do that.

Fay Economides

No, no. Just leave it as it is.

Ashish Tulsian

It’ll get spoiled, right? If you if you don’t if you don’t get the same taste, you will be disappointed.

Fay Economides

Yes. Correct. And then Bahrain, I spent most of my life apart from the Gulf War where I left. Actually, I left for summer and never went back. And that was a bit traumatic. Not not that I never went back. I went back after the war was over. But for me, I didn’t know that it was like, I will never go back. And my best friends to date are still friends from from my school in Bahrain and that I still hang out with today.

Ashish Tulsian

And Bahrain, I assume, I mean, was also quite international.

Fay Economides

It was great. I mean, very international. There was nothing there, nothing to do as a teenager. There was no like, you know, movie theaters. There was no, you know, arcades. We were on our bikes in the desert roaming around. And kids of the eighties and nineties, no mobile phones, nothing, just knew we had to be home by dark. And the fact that we just had to get creative with each other on how to pass the time created these really, really lifetime bonds with the friends that I still hang out with today. They’re like family and I’m blessed that a lot of them live here in Dubai. So yeah, I did all of my schooling there and then went to the UK. So the next transition was going to the UK for university spent there four years. I went to Greece, which I did not really enjoy, surprisingly, because I found the thinking very homogenous. I always used to be surrounded by people with diverse thinking, creative ways of approaching things, critical thinking skills. And when I was in Greece, I felt that was it was kind of a one way street for everybody.

Ashish Tulsian

A robotic robotic program.

Fay Economides

Yeah. So I didn’t fit in very much. And I came to Dubai in 2005 and I’ve been here ever since.

Ashish Tulsian

So. So when you went to Greece, you were like one of those confused locals or confused, you know, I mean, there’s there’s is, there’s this funny, Indian Indians they call themselves desis, you might have heard that.

Fay Economides

Yeah.

Ashish Tulsian

So the second generation and third generation Indian kids, you know, especially, you know, our generation, that’s a millennial, you know. So there’s a term for that. It’s called ABCD American Born Confused Desi. And ABCD is a legit thing. These are the kids who were either born and raised or like from a very tender age, you know, were in in the U.S. and they come back to India and they’re desi, but they are super confused because nobody can relate to them. They can’t relate to anyone. They look like, you know, you this, they sound American and they think American and they’re like, Dude, what’s happening with you?

Fay Economides

Exactly. So you kind of don’t fit in. And yeah, I struggled with that to the point that, you know, I was like, I can’t stay here anymore. I have, you know, some fond memories. And Greece is a beautiful country. Like, you know, you can go for the weekend to so many diverse places in an hour from the city you’re in the mountains or in an island or in a little village somewhere. But other than that, like I need human connection, like proper human connection. And that was lacking. So as much nature as there was and beauty and great food and, you know, culture, I’m ultimately happier in Dubai.

Ashish Tulsian

You like chaos?

Fay Economides

Yeah, I like, like controlled chaos. Yeah.

Ashish Tulsian

That’s me. Yeah. All city rats. Yeah, I hear you..

Fay Economides

For sure. So Dubai is home and.

Ashish Tulsian

So why did you come to Dubai in the first place? I mean, of course this was like the decision was not to be in Greece. But then, why Dubai?

Fay Economides

Yeah, so my husband at the time got a job here and my brother was also already here. And so we moved because of his job and I resigned and came here. And then immediately upon coming here, we started a family.

Ashish Tulsian

What were you working in, you resigned from?

Fay Economides

I was in mergers and acquisitions, actually, so I have a kind of financial banking background. That was what I had done. My masters and my studies have been in economics and politics and political sciences.

Ashish Tulsian

That is what you studied in UK?

Fay Economides

Yeah, this is what I studied in the UK and coming here I so we started the family like I, I discovered I was expecting my first child almost within a month of coming to Dubai. So I said do I get back on to the, you know, crazy corporate cycle expecting my first child? You know, I haven’t lived in Dubai before. Or do I try to take it easy a little bit? About three months into taking it easy, I start getting, you know, restless. And I approached my brother who was entering the hospitality realm, and I asked him if I can support in any way. So we started working together in hospitality.

Ashish Tulsian

Why was he entering hospitality?

Fay Economides

It was a family business.

Ashish Tulsian

So what about like what kind of business?

Fay Economides

Yeah, hotel. So he started a hotel and after a few months into the hotel opening, there was a space that needed to be defined and we brainstormed and decided that we should do a Greek restaurant. And that was the sort of where our, you know, real partnership was born, working together to come up with concepts, brand, find the.

Ashish Tulsian

Where was this hotel?

Fay Economides

In Bur Dubai, the Majestic Hotel. So we.

Ashish Tulsian

That’s still there?

Fay Economides

It’s still there under different ownership. So we started our first restaurant there called Elia, and a lot of people still bring it up to me to this day, like even last week, people that I met asked there was a restaurant in Bur Dubai. Yeah, that’s us. Elia. Yeah.

Ashish Tulsian

So how long back was that? What year?

Fay Economides

2007.

Ashish Tulsian

2007. Oh wow.

Fay Economides

Yeah.

Ashish Tulsian

16 years. And if people are still bringing it up, it’s amazing.

Fay Economides

Yes, yes. It was a well-loved place and I’d say, you know now with the opening like of the our latest opening and everything, it was more I don’t know how to choose the right words for it, but we were less, much less experienced. And I think we did a great job with it. But I don’t know how we did that. Good job with it, if that makes sense.

Ashish Tulsian

Like it, it doesn’t does not like because because there’s definitely and I mean, when you’re saying that 16 years, you know, and people are still bringing that up. Definitely the food experience, if nothing else, the experience of food was superlative. So it’s I’m sure you did something right. What was that? What were like you were naive. You you probably where’t experienced. But what were you focusing on when you were conceptualizing that restaurant? What what is going on?

Fay Economides

The main thing was to bring the reality of this amazing cuisine that we have to to a market that has no idea about it. Greek. Because if you look at the tradition of what exported Greek or like you mentioned, the American born confused, confused desi, there’s a generation of Greeks in Germany or in Europe or in the U.S. as well, who is not my generation is a previous generation who opened restaurants. And in my mind, what I see when I see those restaurants are statues and a lot of blue and very stereotypical cuisine, which it’s not the experience. You know, you don’t go to Greece and eat like that. So I wanted to bring the both my brother and I. That was the idea to bring that authentic Greek. How are people dining in our home country now? What is the modern version of this? And that was, you know, the vision behind it. There’s a lot of challenges, especially with regards to chefs. So we were lucky enough to work with a very well-known chef back in Greece. His name is Yannis Baxevanis, and he we met him here in Dubai. He was visiting a restaurant called Teatro, which is a long standing restaurant here in Dubai. He was coming for a couple of days and great guy, very talented. So he helped us, you know, a little bit with the menu and staffing and things like that. And it was a good partnership that that worked successfully. And a couple of years into the restaurant, you know, Alex and I, Alex’s my brother, were like, okay, we have a knack for this. So think people do like it. We started receiving some awards for for the restaurant and things like that and the good feedback. So we kept on the lookout for, for the next venture. And it took a while to find the right spot.

Ashish Tulsian

Generally, you know, my assumption is and I think Dubai is a little, you know, different that way. I know if we’re asking, but, you know, it’s it’s difficult for restaurants that are inside hotels to really stand out for the audience that is not coming to the hotel. But walking into the restaurant and majorly your captive base, your your insurance, you know, is always your, you know, captive customers at the hotel. What was that like? Was it like how did it stand out so much?

Fay Economides

I think that from a branding perspective, we treated it like a standalone restaurant in the sense that, you know, even the the collaterals back back then, there was still a lot of printed collateral, you know, and you would go to a hotel and a lot of the restaurants didn’t have very strong branding or concept identities. You know, they were just kind of plugged in to the, Oh, we need a Japanese or we need an all day dining, or we need a American. And there wasn’t like a really strong concept of brand back then. I’m not talking about today’s market. So we decided that this is going to be treated and even the PnL was treated like a standalone restaurant. You know, it had to be with all the expenses allocated.

Ashish Tulsian

But why? Why would you like why did you do that? This was this is this is quite a forward thinking, but why?

Fay Economides

I mean, we we really wanted to see if it stands on its own merit, you know, And we knew that to attract local residents, this place needed to have its own character, its own branding, its own personality. Otherwise it would just get lost in the sea of hotel offerings. And it was just, I guess, in the back of our minds, we were thinking of also expanding in the restaurant business. So in order to see if this is working properly and if this can work like a pilot, you could say, I mean, this was not all in our heads, Oh, let’s make a pilot, let’s do a Greek restaurant, I think was just kind of organically there in the thinking.

Ashish Tulsian

Evolving as you were.

Fay Economides

Evolving as we were doing. Yeah. And that’s that’s the reason. And I do believe it helped make it memorable to the customer and to help it stand out among its peers. For how.

Ashish Tulsian

Long? For how long did you do that?

Fay Economides

More than a decade or so. So they overlapped with Mythos. They overlapped.

Ashish Tulsian

It’s called Elia.

Fay Economides

Elia, Elia. It’s no longer open, but.

Ashish Tulsian

That was until 2017 you were saying?

Fay Economides

Yeah, we were involved until 2017. Then it rolled a little bit under new management and then ultimately with COVID and everything became more challenging. It’s closed now.

Ashish Tulsian

With the new with the new owners. Got it. Back to your Elia days. So you ran Elia for ten years, but did you what happened in between? Like when did you decide to actually expand outside?

Fay Economides

I mean, I think 2009, 2010, we had already starting to look for opportunities, seeing that there was something promising there with with Alex. And it took us a while. We looked at a lot of locations. There was a period of time where things were on fire in Dubai and, you know, rents and commercial terms were very, very challenging for standalone operators looking to to do things. But ultimately we were lucky to find the location in JLT.

Ashish Tulsian

JLT back in 2010?

Fay Economides

We were looking at. 2014, the JLT location Materialized.

Ashish Tulsian

Yeah.

Fay Economides

And we opened in 2015.

Ashish Tulsian

But what between 2007 to 2014? You didn’t have another location.

Fay Economides

No. In terms of I mean within the hotel we had other F and B things going on. But in terms of restaurants that was the main focus.

Ashish Tulsian

I’m assuming that JLT might have come up in in that in that time period. Yes. Right. Yeah. That was a time when.

Fay Economides

Exactly 2015 JLT opened. So from 2014 we were, you know, constructing, designing and Mythos and Nola were two brands, so doing two simultaneously has its own challenges and it took, it took it takes time to develop your concept and execute it truly, um, so yeah, and then 2015 we opened. So there was that whole first year of the two concepts and JLT Also.

Ashish Tulsian

Why not Elia?

Fay Economides

Mythos was more tailored to the target market of JLT being, I mean, Elia had a bit of a modern contemporary twist and we wanted to go more to roots rather than have the more modern contemporary Greek cuisine. And we felt that the market there would be more receptive to that, to simplify and really get the traditional recipes down. So even the concept in JLT when we were looking at it was a sort of elevated modern taverna. Now I think we’re more like in a citywalk, a restaurant. So it evolves depending on what you feel is the the markets and your audience. Because from mental now the audience perception of Greece, Greek cuisine, all things Greek It’s like day and night. It’s like 180 degree turn.

Ashish Tulsian

You mean the liking or just the education?

Fay Economides

Education and liking. Because the more they knew about it, the more they liked them.

Ashish Tulsian

I mean, a lot of Greek restaurants, lot of Greek cuisine is there.

Fay Economides

Now? Yes. And well-executed Greek cuisine because there have been attempts in the past, which I felt actually was detrimental to the name of Greek cuisine. So the more good Greek restaurants there are, the happier that.

Ashish Tulsian

Yeah, one like noteworthy for me is Gaia.

Fay Economides

Of course.

Ashish Tulsian

You know, it’s I.

Fay Economides

So I think now in the last five years what people understand about Greece and Greek food, they can embrace something like Gaia. But maybe 15 years ago the market wouldn’t have been ready for it.

Ashish Tulsian

Yeah, Dynamics were working with their brother. How does that work?

Fay Economides

It’s amazing. It makes me happy. I love working with him. Um, we have been through a lot in our lives together. Challenges and difficulties, and we have kind of a similar temperament in the terms of like grit and easygoing communication and lack of ego. Um, respect. So it works very well.

Ashish Tulsian

You’re check boxing everything that partners need to have in general. Yeah, because you’ll have good days and bad days, but.

Fay Economides

Yeah, I mean, we don’t have many bad days. I’m very happy to say there is no like, I don’t feel any strain at all. I mean, we’ve been working together now since the very, you know, since 2005. So I can’t say, for example, it was better then and it’s not now. The whole time we have always had a really good relationship and respect for each other. Our skill sets are largely complementary. He’s very, very good with technical skills, MEPH, FAC, CAD, all this kind of stuff which I have over the years learned a lot from him, you know. So now I can even.

Ashish Tulsian

Why does he need that? Like designing your own stuff on spaces?

Fay Economides

It’s kind of like, you know, when you go to the doctor and you don’t know anything and you just have to rely on what the doctor tells you. But if you know a little bit about, you know, you can say, actually, I’m not sure I can. It’s the same thing with all of the stuff. The more you know, the less reliant you are on somebody telling you that this is the way it has to be. So, you know, if you know something about financials, you can challenge your, you know, financial director or your auditor or whatever and see, you know, does this make sense? It’s the same.

Ashish Tulsian

And, you know, it it baffles me. You know, due respect to all the professionals out there, it baffles me that how many times your intervention is actually correct.

Fay Economides

So many.

Ashish Tulsian

I mean, it just baffles me.

Fay Economides

So many, because nobody’s going to take care of it as well as you’re going to take care of your own thing. Right?

Ashish Tulsian

Yeah, I think that the god element is just that that how this situation is occurring to you. Right. You know what what becomes a matter of life and death, if I may say it, like exaggeration, of course, but. Right. You know. Yeah. You know, unless it unless everything feels like on that issue feels like the matter of life and death, you don’t get creative about it. I mean, so many times I intervene and end up giving solutions to or I don’t know, not even giving solutions, probably just herding them and steering them by asking the right question. They, of course, know the law or the craft better, but with accountants, finance people, lawyers, um, even for that matter, technicals. I mean, I run a tech company, you know, though I’m an engineer and you know, I understand, you know core. But at the same time I’m not quoting philosophers, I don’t know, 15 years. Right. But I just it just baffles me that how much entrepreneurial grit and creative thinking just just feeling the fires under you can can like, make you smarter.

Fay Economides

And, you know, entrepreneurs are firemen. They just put out fires all day. All right. So the more you get things right from the beginning, the less fires you have to put out in the in the process. Right. So leave no stone unturned and no question unasked.

Ashish Tulsian

Yeah. Matter of life and death. Right. Fireman is perfect analogy, it’s the same page.

Fay Economides

Exactly so yeah he he’s very good at all that kind of stuff. We’re both very good with people and we are we have a very good team which we work with together. So there’s a, you know, overlap in terms of leadership. We lead side by side and we lead side by side with our team and really have a good culture in the company in terms of, you know, openness, participation, having a say in strategy, direction of the way things are going, making even choices about new openings or, you know, everybody’s involved and we’re involved to the choice of the fork, to the, you know, where to place everything. So that creates a really collaborative, warm climate where everybody feels they are contributing. And he’s very good at making people feel that way because it’s the reality. You know, everybody has a seat at the table and everybody’s heard. So, yeah, it’s been great working with him.

Ashish Tulsian

And what’s your what’s your side of the skill?

Fay Economides

Finance, obviously with my background and things like that and basically PR and, you know, doing things like this, putting my face out there. So I generally I, I tend to be more like front facing in terms of, you know, events and, and interacting with people. And Alex is more like, you know, not into that.

Ashish Tulsian

He’s behind the scenes.

Fay Economides

Yeah. I mean he’s very much on the scenes in terms of our, you know, between us.

Ashish Tulsian

Yeah sure but but not in the public eye a lot?

Fay Economides

Yeah I think he, he doesn’t prioritize that. He has two young kids as well so my kids are a bit older. So the time factor, you know, if you have an hour time, spend it with your little kids. But kids don’t come out of the room so to say hello. So yeah, I think he he’s we both complement each other in different in different ways.

Ashish Tulsian

Oh, how old are your kids now?

Fay Economides

17 and 14.

Ashish Tulsian

And what do they feel about being restauranteurs?

Fay Economides

They actually, you know, they’re very proud. They are my best word of mouth spreaders to parents of their friends and school. Um, I have remember them, you know, doing food tastings practically since they were born always involved. You know, the younger they were, the more, let’s say, excited they were to be involved in everything. They have memories of attending meetings while they’re doing their homework and, you know, me taking calls while they’re doing a swimming competition. You know, technology has been a blessing in that sense that I am a walking office wherever I am. I have, you know.

Ashish Tulsian

They’re already trained restaurateurs, they just don’t know that yet. Or do they know that?

Fay Economides

What that they’re going to be restaurateurs?

Ashish Tulsian

No, that they’re already trained restauranteurs. I mean, whether they choose or not is a separate problem.

Fay Economides

I think that they know that they even worked they worked in the kitchen a little bit just to get some couple of hours there of experience and things like that. They have a say, and if they don’t like something, they will immediately send me a picture if they’re there with their friends or something about the playlist, the lighting, the uniform. So yeah, they do have they inadvertently, I think, picked up a lot of skills along the way. And my my son is very interested in culinary things. He’s been watching cooking shows since he was two. Um, he, he’s been like, commenting on Gordon Ramsay’s YouTube since he was eight. Wow.

Ashish Tulsian

Wow, Yeah, that’s some training. Yeah. Perfect.

Fay Economides

Yeah, but I don’t know, they’re both musicians, so I think currently the thinking is we want to pursue music, but let’s see.

Ashish Tulsian

Hmm. Then will that creativity turn into I mean, as I said, I’m sure it will dawn on them sometimes that, Oh, this, we know like back of our hand.

Fay Economides

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And they have the, you know, the odd habits that we have go to restaurant and turn over the plate to see the brand or you know, or, you know, they do that too. So they definitely picked up some stuff from us.

Ashish Tulsian

Well, it’s been the journey with the Mythos and Nola? So Mythos and Nola you said, you opened both like you started both of them, like almost like the same time at JLT, so these two brands were born at the same time? 

Fay Economides

Correct.

Ashish Tulsian

So where are you at today with Mythos and Nola?

Fay Economides

Yeah. I mean, we just recently opened a second one of each again next to each other in City Walk. Um, and there is an evolution of the brand there, the decor and the design is, you know, a little bit more fitting for today and for the location I am. I’m always grateful and a little bit surprised at how strong the brands keep going after, you know, now eight, nine years. It’s a pleasant surprise. And I feel like they’re you know, they’re my babies. Alex and I feel like that. We’ve put a lot of passion and time and effort.

Ashish Tulsian

Especially in a in a market like Dubai, where, like the common wisdom is that restaurants don’t have

Fay Economides

A long lifespan.

Ashish Tulsian

A long lifespan, but it’ll come and go. Even if it goes great. There’s going to be like, there’s a life to it, right?

Fay Economides

Yeah. But I think that if you are lucky enough for you, maybe it’s not just luck, but if you manage to create a good product and a good brand, if you are able to deliver on that brand consistently day in, day out, day in, day out, consistent, consistent, consistent, you can overcome that challenge. So if you have like dishes that people crave, you go away and you think, Oh, I can’t wait to go back and have that dish, you know, and you go back in the dishes the way it’s supposed to be, the way that they remember, the way they crave it. And it happens consistently. Um, you can, you can overcome the whole longevity thing, and then you reach that point of that nostalgia, you know.

Ashish Tulsian

That, and that that needs, that needs a decade to compound, right.

Fay Economides

Yeah. And then you get afraid because you want to you’re thinking, okay, should I change things up? It’s been eight years, you know, should I do a few tweaks and changes and no, don’t touch anything, you know, So you get I think we’re in that place right now. We’re, you know, we’re trying to decide what to freshen up, how much to freshen up, how to not mess with the the consistency and things that people have in their mind. This is I’m going to Mythos, I’m going to Nola and this is what I’m going for. And this is why. But you still need to refresh a little bit, you know, keep it fresh.

Ashish Tulsian

Yeah, but I, you know, absolutely. But I think I you know, as a restaurateur, I was a, you know, 13 years back, I used to have a small restaurant. And I think my learning from that restaurant was this the people who liked your food, when they come back, they don’t want a better dish. They want the same dish you give them better. You screw. Like I have actually had this conversation with the customer where, you know, our chef changed and, you know, there was a particular dish in the Indian cuisine. It’s lentils, black lentils, you know, that’s called Dal Makhani. And the new chef came and he of course, and this was my first time of a chef change, right? I mean, it was a six month old restaurateur and so, like, so I basically got another chef and said, okay, you know, I’m very happy that we’ve got a better chef. And this guy is making like, like amazing Dal. And I remember I got a beating from like a customer right there where this guy said, What happened to your Dal? I was like, this is better. He said no. That restaurant has better. This one, I want the same. I was like ouch and I really begged that chef to come back. Please don’t go anywhere till the time I get my, like, I’m able to wrap my head around what just hit me. But that was a big insight for me because it was so normal, because as a customer, I always had that insight. As a business owner, as a restaurateur, it was very hard to, you know, digest or being present to it. But as a consumer, I always had that insight. I of course, I go to my favorite restaurants to like, have the same thing. I’m I’m experiencing the smell, the taste and the experience is in my head as soon as I decide to go there. 

Fay Economides

Yeah. And if you don’t get that.

Ashish Tulsian

Oh, yeah, yeah. Disappointment.

Fay Economides

So that’s, that’s the challenge. I think if you reach that, that time period, you know, five, seven, eight, ten years and you have to make a decision how much freshening up, how much you know, and not to temper and really you know don’t be afraid to ask your customers, you know get in and I’ve been calling people left, right and center. We want to do this. We want to we’re thinking doing this, you know, And they’re like.

Ashish Tulsian

Tell me that. Like what they are like. You’re talking about something very interesting. Like, do you do you actively engage? Is there a process for you to engage with customers to really know what’s working or doesn’t work, are making try new things? How do you validate whenever you make some changes? If at all.

Fay Economides

I won’t necessarily reach out to customers that I don’t know very well, but obviously a lot of our customers are from our network of people, right? So there’s a good amount, say 20, 30, even 40 people that I, you know, phone call away, that I will ask the questions. You know, like even I’m thinking of making this section more plants or you know, Alex has this idea of design or we might even bring five or six people, So we’re thinking this, you know, and be like, yes, no, and get the real proper feedback.

Ashish Tulsian

On the business side. You know, this this entire notion of, you know, of course, holding your brand tight, customer experience, you know, conserving the customer experience and dishes and cuisine and but it kind of is you know, it also meddles with the ambition because you’re not able to also grow fast enough because you also don’t want to change too much. Right. And you don’t let go. What’s been your journey on that side?

Fay Economides

Yeah, I mean, we haven’t been ever of the thinking of aggressive scaling Just because we do what our brands are about are really experiential. And they’re, you know, I think there are certain concepts that are easier to scale than others. It’s doable if you put the right resources in place. But I think ultimately it’s about a lifetime, a life choice decision about the entrepreneur themselves. You know, do they want to get in that boat and sail away or not? And I don’t necessarily think that that’s something that has like a time limit. You know, nobody’s going to, you know, miss an opportunity if they don’t do it now or they do it later. In my view, I don’t feel like all the brands hot now. We have to move now. I believe in decisions that come to you more organically than you know, if it feels right. And sometimes it’s just a question of also the right elements fitting in together at the right time. Um, by, by chance.

Ashish Tulsian

But how do you not get in FOMO, especially in Dubai, is a crazy market you know, I think I feel like this is like New York on steroids. So so I mean, there’s so much happening all around you. There’s and Dubai is on a different plane, right? Because it’s not only the the market is shifting or changing. Market is also getting created physically as well. Right. So the expansion of the city, there’s continuous, you know, competition. There’s also a lot of bling in the sense that new restaurants coming in, souping the market, awards, Michelin Guide is here and whatnot. How do you how do you not like what’s the school of thought that allows you to not be not participating in the FOMO?

Fay Economides

Um, good question. I’ve never been one to really have FOMO. Alex and I, both.

Ashish Tulsian

There has to be some philosophy for the Zen.

Fay Economides

I think it’s just a question of priorities, you know, like, I feel like it’s a life choice. When you decide that you’re going to get on this boat, you have to sacrifice certain things yourself as an entrepreneur, as a person. And I think that, you know, sometimes that choice is not not ready there yet. You know, if it ever comes, we prefer to do things at a different pace and not go all like.

Ashish Tulsian

But did you have bouts of desire to go all in?

Fay Economides

Not yet.

Ashish Tulsian

Not even like it didn’t even occur? No spike?

Fay Economides

Not yet. I’m not saying that it might not happen, but so far, I mean, one would have to go back to kind of try to understand the reasons why somebody would do that. Right. Obviously, the fact that has to be viable, which I do think it can be, and a passion which is there. But I think also like at our stage in our journey, doing like a huge expansion plan, you know, let’s go into ten markets in two years or I think it would take our personal resources so much so that, is it worth it? At this moment in time, That’s not our style. We would be looking at organic growth, you know, just like we’ve been growing at the pace that we’ve been growing. Um, that makes more sense for us as, as our philosophy and our style of living. We can put in our resources personally because we would have to be very involved.

Ashish Tulsian

What’s, what’s keeping you passionate about this right now? What’s, what’s exciting every day or every week or every month. I know excitement and passion can also be, you know, over exaggerated terms. But what’s you know, what’s what’s keeping the fire?

Fay Economides

To be honest, I’m so happy interacting with my team. Uh, Alex and I, this team, that I just really, really enjoy, you know, getting together, planning, you know, there’s always things going on in the business. Brainstorming to come up with ideas, that interaction that human interaction within the company is what really makes me feel fulfilled every day. Like I really enjoy interacting with our chef and our director of operations, the team, the support function teams, you know, HR, finance. We have an office in JLT. I just like be in the thick of it. Wake up with purpose every day. And ultimately the purpose of all of that is to continue to hear really good feedback from people that they really like going to these restaurants. And why? Why do they, you know, what is it that they enjoy so much? And because we purposely tried to deliver that. When you hear that it’s actually being received the way that you have it in your mind and enjoyed and people express gratefulness for that, it’s a great feeling. So that’s how you wake up, interact with people, make sure that what you want to deliver, you deliver it, and that people really have a place that they enjoy and they feel, um, a lot of people are very super regular, so they feel like it’s part of their life, you know, going to NOLA, going to Mythos. And that’s the reason.

Ashish Tulsian

That’s special. Your journey as an entrepreneur over last, let’s say ten years or eight years, or pick the, you know, pick the period. But how have you changed? Or evolved, or, you know, things that you recognize that, you know, this part of me is like not the same anymore or for good or for that doesn’t matter.

Fay Economides

I think the main thing is more clarity on my intuition. Um, I’ve always had like these internal dialogs of, yes, I think this should happen, this should not happen. And trusting that voice inside of me, I trusted it a lot more now, like when my peers were telling me, you know, about citywalk. A lot of people questioned it as a choice, whether, you know, it’s a good idea. But my intuition was telling me strongly that, you know, this is this is a good choice. Um, I think previously in that battle between hearing external feedback, which goes against my intuition versus my intuition, I would have been more unsettling then in this particular moment.

Ashish Tulsian

Why do you think that happens?

Fay Economides

The, the growth with the intuition or why do you think you question your intuition? 

Ashish Tulsian

Both.

Fay Economides

I think that in earlier years you question your intuition because you don’t have enough of a track record to trust it. You know, it’s like anything you try it and you see it works, it works. You trust the process. So over time, when you see that your intuition turns out to be right, the majority of time you learn to trust that. So even if people that you actually look up to or, you know, are considered very successful in a particular area, telling you opposite to your intuition. Um, so I think it’s just a question of growth, confidence and a track record and it’s something that I’ve been, you know, acutely aware of in highlighting to myself that it’s a good thing that you can listen to your intuition. Other than that as an entrepreneur, um, I have I’ve had had less moments of really intense stress than the early days.

Ashish Tulsian

Why so?

Fay Economides

So I think just, you know, a kind of envisioning a worst case scenario and saying, okay.

Ashish Tulsian

Whatever doesn’t kill you has made you stronger. Ok, like, what used to stress you out, early days?

Fay Economides

I’ll tell you, I had nightmares in JLT, recurring nightmare. I’m sitting in Nola and Mythos, it’s  all ready with Alex. We’re sitting watching the door. Nobody’s coming in. Nobody’s coming.

Ashish Tulsian

Like, like actually the actual nightmares?

Fay Economides

I’d wake up and be like you know, I put in all this work and we’ve invested in this and that and nobody came. So I actually had nightmares. So, you know, that would be the worst case scenario, right? So and fortunately, very, very fortunately, Alex and I freak out, not at the same time. Yeah. So when you know, and lately especially, I feel that he’s even more of a, you know, okay, don’t worry. These are not problems. We’ll deal with it. You know, very comforting. Whenever I’ve had, like, in COVID, I think I freaked out more than he did. Yeah, He was very reassuring during COVID. So our dynamic works even in those cases of of stress. So I think generally experience growth. Um, yeah, maturity helps. I definitely think entrepreneurs who are like in their late twenties and thirties have a worse have it worse than people who are in their forties for sure.

Ashish Tulsian

I think. I think it’s also you’re right, I think it’s just that, you know you get a lot of A/B testing with your intuition, you know over time when did you trust it, what happened, when you didn’t listen to it, what happened, and vice versa as well. I mean, it fails you as well, but not all the time. Most of the time it protects you.

Ashish Tulsian

Yeah.

Fay Economides

Yeah.

Ashish Tulsian

What have been the failures that you, I mean, you feel were defining for you? Small, big. Doesn’t matter. As a restaurateur or personally, but were like, what were the are like failure milestones in life?

Fay Economides

I’m not really sure. Um, I think as a mother entrepreneur, um, not failures exactly, but the struggle has been a real struggle because sometimes you feel, you know, you’re trying to give some of you to every part of your life and then you’re not giving enough to any one part of those. And I try to manage that by periodically giving more attention to one thing over the other rather than try to do it all at the same time. So if I had to focus on family, I, you know, put 70% of myself on my resources and the focus on the family, and 30% on everything else. And then if work, you know, if you’re building restaurants or if you’re you know, you focus more on that and the family suffers a little bit more social life, uh, definitely sometimes has been less priority. Um, so, could I have done better? Of course, anybody it’s a learning experience. Nobody was born with a manual how to work in the hospitality and raise a family and be balanced and be happy and do it all right. So, yeah, I wouldn’t call it failure as such, but a struggle that has been one of my biggest struggles is trying to give the best version of myself to everything in my life that needed my attention.

Ashish Tulsian

But did that I mean, I’m sure that struggle, like you, did the struggle get over or you got over the struggle like what happened?

Fay Economides

Um, I found a methodology. Yeah. So the struggle probably didn’t get over. I it evolves and it shifts and it changes. I have learned to be more forgiving of myself. Um, and to be more, you know, have less expectations of myself and not beat myself up. When things don’t go as well as I, as I would like. Um, um, and transparency with everybody, whether it’s the kids or the work or, um, just explain what’s happening and better than just try to put up the face, everything’s fine. No, we have a problem here. I need to give my attention here. I need to do this. I need to do that. I need your support.

Ashish Tulsian

Did you did you start doing it later in life? Because, you know, I’m just going to I’m just going to put my or state my perception. You definitely are a A-type. You’re a strong personality, high ownership. You know, did you start becoming you know, what you just shared, vulnerable later? 

Fay Economides

Yes, because I think as a younger woman in the banking sector and I remember in my second job, I was really thrown into the deep end. Um, I’ll tell you a little anecdote. There was we were part of a subsidiary of a bank. It was like a private equity arm. And the CEO of that subsidiary didn’t really have a good relationship with the bank. So in order to, like, snub them, he would send me to the like, these. They’d have these annual meetings or biannual meetings with all the subsidiaries and the senior level people would go. But because he didn’t want to give them face, he’d sent me. So I was like, oh 23-24 And I’d be there with these, you know, very male fifties kind of room.

Ashish Tulsian

And finance world is quite dominated.

Fay Economides

And he would be like, whatever they say, just say that you’re representing, take notes and report back to me. So I think I felt that pressure. I mean, it was a very memorable experience for me. And I always felt the pressure that I needed to look older, more serious, have my things together. And that carried with me even, you know, just a few meetings that I had to attend like that. But I carry that with me in life in my earlier years that I have to look like I’m super professional. We have everything together, show no weakness, show no vulnerability, and that’s what I did. And then eventually, I think actually when I, you know, reached my late thirties, maybe I started realizing and my family and, you know, I have to actually just be who I am. And it’s it’s going to be okay.

Ashish Tulsian

What flipped the switch?

Fay Economides

I think just the real inability to just do that anymore got tiring. It got draining and maturity. You learn to accept yourself and know yourself and understand that your abilities and who you are and your worth doesn’t have to do with what face you present to people and the response, you know, slowly, slowly. Actually, I started getting, you know, more deeply connected to people. Not not I mean, my personal friends have been my personal friends, like I mentioned since school. But in the in the in let’s say the community in the world here, I have made some really nice friendships by just being myself. So it was it’s a good decision.

Ashish Tulsian

I think this is one training that I personally feel that, you know, no institution provides, you know, family is one institution which can kind of provide that, you know, I’m sure your kids looking at you are vulnerable side or, you know, more transparent. What you see is what you get sort of side, must be getting trained subconsciously. I’m I’m sure they will later in life realize some that that oh, you know what this is how this is the natural way. You know for example, I learnt it from my dad that, oh, yeah, this is how it is and, you know, deal with it. But this is this is there’s no facade on this. And then and I realized actually quite late, you know, my reaction to something like this is flipping because subconsciously I had the training it just settled today. Suddenly I said no, no no we’re not lying, tell them this how we feel. And we’re still here. And, and I realized, oh wow, I just acted like my dad and I, I didn’t know that it it was there I had my own personality. Even then it shifted. But that training, I think, as an entrepreneur is super, super important because so much can get solved just by, you know, what you’re saying.

Fay Economides

Being authentic. Yeah, Yeah, that’s true. I mean, with regards to the kids, the reason that I think they’ve seen me be so much myself, apart from the, you know, the professional would say side of me is I have my, my, my school friends. So when we get together, we go back to our teen years and there’s no, you know, we don’t hold back. So they see a bunch of people in their forties, you know, being completely raw and themselves. But I think also, you know, she, she especially my daughter because she’s 17 and, you know, I she does see that I put myself out of my comfort zone more and I’m increasingly feeling more comfortable with that. And you know, today with social media, this next generation, that’s going to be a challenge because everybody has this social media facade. It’s not even just what you when you talk to people or how they present themselves, it’s what they see. And it’s all not reality. And it’s big challenge for this generation to be able to find their authentic self and be brave enough to break through what everybody’s showing and be vulnerable and be themselves and take risks. And if I managed to, you know, show my kids that that’s okay by being an example of that, I’ll be very proud of it. Yeah.

Ashish Tulsian

That’s a big one. And I and I do wonder about today’s kids that the piece that you said I really wonder about that right because you know nineties and like even early 2000, are barely I mean eighties and nineties kids even for that matter are barely managing this the social media and like reel and real life. Kids who are born into it like who open like who who gained their consciousness while reels were flying all over. I don’t even know how they look at it. I mean, I’m just at times I’m curious that is it that they were born into it so they have this automatic understanding of this is reel and this is real. Or is it that the reality so altered that they are struggling with like at a ten x level as compared to, you know, people, you know, who who still had some semblance of reality and then they got reels.

Fay Economides

Yeah. I think that they go through a journey that eventually they are able to, not all of them, I think there’s a real risk of people not being able to tell reality from, you know, from what they see on a screen. But I think eventually, once they hit a level of maturity, at least from the experience that I’ve seen with the kids that I’ve interacted with, they start to realize that life is not like this. You know, And you mentioned FOMO before, big, big problem with FOMO in the teenage years. You know, people are really presenting themselves doing things and seeing things and being things. And you feel the pressure that I need to do the same, be the same look the same, the same, but eventually you grow out of it. And they were able to filter this is not really reality and they can come out the other side by embracing real life. But it’s a challenge.

Ashish Tulsian

Do you think about, you know, your brands, the ones that you are synthesizing, they will not relate to teenagers today or are they relating to teenagers already?

Fay Economides

So a lot of teenagers have been vacationing in Greece. I mean, Dubai teenagers, at least. There’s a lot of flights to Greece.

Ashish Tulsian

Yep.

Fay Economides

So I we do have actually a lot of teen groups coming and having Greek food. And then we have a lot of teen groups that would love to come to know a lot, but they can’t. I mean, they can come for lunch and dinner, but you know.

Ashish Tulsian

No, I didn’t mean, of course, like are teens coming to whatever. I mean, okay, let’s put that let’s let’s say, you know, 22 year olds. You know, Are you finding that? 

Fay Economides

Yeah. I think actually what’s really nice about both of the brands is that the demographic is quite diverse, both in terms of nationalities and age groups. So you see youngsters and you also see in the sort of 60 plus generation as well. It’s quite nice.

Ashish Tulsian

Mythos definitely has that vibe, but you know.

Fay Economides

Nola depends on the day. Um, Thursday, Friday, you know, the weekend vibe is a little bit of a younger demographic, but lunchtime, um, and weekend like lunchtime, you get more diverse in terms of age group. Oh yeah, Yeah.

Ashish Tulsian

So you’re so you’re, you’re secure from Gen Alpha, is that I mean that’s, that’s, that’s sort of, that’s what I’m hearing.

Fay Economides

Yeah I think so. We’re relatable. Um, I think we’re relatable to the Gen Alpha.

Ashish Tulsian

And Michelin star?

Fay Economides

Um, I think I would not say no, but it’s not our exact, let’s say we don’t do things with the mindset of let’s get a michelin star. Um, I know that we just try to be the best that we can be. Um, I know our food is really good. I get that from a lot of people. Feedback and, and the fact that the business is still going strong, the.

Ashish Tulsian

Fact that Roger Federer was at your restaurant.

Fay Economides

The fact that Roger Federer was at the restaurant in the second week. We have a lot of celebrity fans. So, um. Yeah, I mean, I’m happy Michelin is here. I think this is great vibe for the city, not only Michelin, you know, world 50 best is brought a lot of excitement really good vibe all the events around it and I’m very proud of all the restaurants that are, you know, being recognized. But like I said, we are our award is our customer coming back, um, and you know, being loved by, by the, by the Dubai scene. So, yeah, it’s all good.

Ashish Tulsian

What do you do for your, your nourishment, your, you know, like, do for both for mind. I know what you do for the soul. We talked about it, unless you want to add something to it as well. But what do you do for your mind, for you are like, how do you keep it stimulated or what? What is your learning process, if at all?

Fay Economides

Um, I’ve recently, I mean, I’ve always been appreciative and know that for my mind to work well, my body needs to work well. So I’ve always done exercise. Even it’s challenging to find time, uh, 3 to 4 times a week, one hour of exercise is non-negotiable. Um, and I find that the immediate couple of hours after exercising, um, there’s a slow, a slower pace of crazy talk monkey brain or whatever they want to call it. Like, my mind really gets more clarity and settles. Um, I have learned that it’s okay to do nothing, and that’s very new. That’s like.

Ashish Tulsian

That’s new?

Fay Economides

Very new.

Ashish Tulsian

Tell me more.

Fay Economides

It’s okay to just take 2 hours and do nothing. Whether it’s not exercise, it’s not, you know, something to do with the kids, not just do nothing. I could never do that before. I felt guilt that that time should be invested in something more fruitful, more productive. Um, you know, that. I don’t know. I just felt terrible doing this for doing nothing is actually a great investment.

Ashish Tulsian

How did you come about it?

Fay Economides

Um. Like, over. Just my my mind and my body were screaming for rest. I just needed rest. So I started by just trying to do that and rest and not going to the gym, not going socially, having coffee with someone.

Ashish Tulsian

Not another distraction.

Fay Economides

Not another distraction. And I said, you know, I just need to rest. So I started incorporating that. And lately I have been able to allow myself to do that without feeling bad about it.

Ashish Tulsian

What do you do when you’re doing nothing?

Fay Economides

Sometimes I just sit on the grass, like I just listen to the birds and not meditate. I’d love to be able to be one of those people who meditate. I have tried maybe in a couple of years we’ll talk and I’ll tell you, Oh, you know, I’ve learned how to meditate, but I’m not there yet. Although I really I know it’s beneficial. I know everybody raves about it, but I can sit on the grass and listen to birds and feel the wind on my face and feel the sunshine on my skin. And you know, I have a dog sit with my dog and just an hour, maybe listen to some music and not do anything, not look at my phone. And it’s it’s really important. It’s been it’s been a big change for me that’s been able.

Ashish Tulsian

Do you take our time for that or is it hedonistic?

Fay Economides

No, no, whenever I feel like it, I don’t schedule it, I don’t plan it. My days anyway are quite varied. No, two days really look alike. It’s not like I have, you know, this schedule. It’s always quite different. Um, so whenever I have, you know, time and it’s happening now, you know, once a week, I can do it. Um, it happens organically. Yeah. So that’s what I do. I’ve learned to do nothing, and I’ve learned that exercise is very important for me and friends. So my social life has suffered quite a bit over the last decade. Let’s say, um, and in terms of work and love, my family always been.

Ashish Tulsian

I think restaurateurs also, I think their social life just suffers by design because, because all the times when world wants to be sociable, they are trying to be social and your establishment.

Fay Economides

That’s right.

Ashish Tulsian

That’s not the time for you to be sociable. That’s your work time. It’s I think world just makes it like it just flips the, you know the entire timeline.

Fay Economides

Yeah, yeah. Um, but yeah, spending quality time with family and friends. This is really nice and I love the water also. Um, that’s another thing that I berate myself about. We have so much water around us and I don’t have as much time to enjoy it. So every, every year when I come back after a short summer break, I say this winter I’m going to be enjoying the water. I’ve done a little bit better this time around than previous times, but that’s very therapeutic. Just go swimming in the sea.

Ashish Tulsian

Yeah, Yeah. I’m a beach guy as well. I relate. I, I don’t hate mountains, but I’m not a like mountains don’t call me.

Fay Economides

Beaches call you. Yeah, yeah.

Ashish Tulsian

Fay this was absolute Zen. This is I think entrepreneurs by I think by design are restless and always ambition is always leading much ahead. And that becomes the source of all the euphoria manifesting into anxiety and whatnot. But at the same time, yeah, you know, there are entrepreneurs who also go to the brighter side and, you know, start feeling calm and all of all of those things the same euphoria can bring in a lot of self-assurance and calmness. I think your brands reflect that your work reflects that. This is this was a great conversation, extremely enriching. Thank you.

Fay Economides

Same for me. Thank you for having me. I really enjoyed it.