Ashish Tulsian:

Very few brands make it to three years or five years, but fewer actually survive and thrive beyond one or two generations. You know, you are one such example who’s carrying, you know, that legacy forward.

 

Alexandre Bachir:

Bachir, it’s a family business. It’s a Lebanese brand. So it’s my grandfather and his brother who started this. So they start ice cream in 1936. Next year, it will be 90 years. In 77, 78, when they bring the machineries, in one hour, you know, you do approximately four or five kilos of ice cream. They discovered that in one hour, they can do 50 kilos, 100 kilos. So they start thinking, why not opening new shops? I discovered that all the family business have the same problem.

 

Ashish Tulsian:

What are the two, three things that you remember, you know, really frustrated you?

 

Alexandre Bachir:

Because I was seeing my father and my uncle.

 

Ashish Tulsian:

UAE has a large Lebanese community. Hospitality and food is second nature, you know, so many Lebanese people.

 

Alexandre Bachir:

Bachir brand start in UAE with the Lebanese community and they help us to develop to other communities. We are doing the same in Qatar. So a lot of Lebanese doing our job of marketing.

 

Ashish Tulsian:

Your previous generations don’t want it to be in the hands of, you know, somebody else. How are you doing that?

 

Alexandre Bachir:

Multiple factors. First, I try to analyze it first. Then connection.

 

Ashish Tulsian:

And till that time, what were you like? What was your profession?

 

Alexandre Bachir:

Accountant. Less interesting. So every six months he said, you know, if you want to stop, you can stop. You can go back to Lebanon and everything is ready for you. He moved there, but I discovered and nothing was ready for me.

 

Ashish Tulsian:

But your accounting background is also helping you make sure that the numbers are right and your focus is great on numbers. Does it help? Hi, welcome to Restrocast.

Today, my guest is one of the rare kind brands that have seen, you know, generations in little sense, experiencing their fourth generation, not only loving the brand, but working hard and thriving to take that brand to the world. My guest today is Alexander Bachir of Bachir Ice Cream, a Lebanon based company that started in 1936 by two brothers, carried forward by their four sons and being carried on their shoulders by 14 third generation family and who is, you know, very lovingly bringing the fourth generation in right now. Bachir is a story of, you know, what close knit families, shared purpose, shared mission and shared love for what their ancestors have done can bring to the world.

It is, you know, in Alex’s, you know, tone, you can almost feel that how much the respect and the love for their grandfather’s work and their father’s work and their, you know, and their family’s work flows through their intent. And when they talk about taking Bachir to the world, it is, it is more than a, you know, business for them. This is definitely worth a watch. Welcome to Restrocast. Alex, welcome to Restrocast. 

 

Alexandre Bachir:

Thank you very much. Thank you for having me. 

 

Ashish Tulsian:

I heard, you know, your story of the family and the business that you run today. Very few brands, very few businesses, I would say in the world, make it to, you know, three years or five years or 10 years. And generally, you know, my entire friend circle is entrepreneurs, you know, people who are running different kinds of businesses. And whenever somebody’s company completes five years or seven years or 10 years, I always write to them saying, you know, congratulate yourself because, you know, very few businesses are able to survive this long as a percentage in the world. And, you know, after 10, I believe that you are on to building a legacy. This is the step one of what a legacy looks like. But fewer or rarest of the brands actually survive and thrive beyond one or two generations and have, you know, legacy, which is multiple decades old.

Alex, you know, you are one such example who’s carrying, you know, that legacy forward. What’s the story, you know, what’s happening at Bachir Ice Cream?

 

Alexandre Bachir:

So Bachir, it’s a family business, like you said. It’s a Lebanese brand. So it’s my grandfather and his brother who started this. So Edward and Maurice Bachir in the mountains of Lebanon, a village named Bikfaya. So they start ice cream in 1936. 

 

Ashish Tulsian:

1936?

 

Alexandre Bachir:

1936.

 

Ashish Tulsian:

So we are almost 89 years.

 

Alexandre Bachir:

Next year, it will be 90 years. Yes. So in 1936, they start doing ice cream in a shop where they were selling popcorns, coffee, cigarettes. So in 1936, they start doing this. And with time, they stop everything and they sell only ice cream. In 37, 38, they start selling only ice cream.

So this is the first generation of my grandfather and his brother. My father and my uncle, so four brothers, my father and three uncles, so four brothers continue the business in the 70s. So 77, 78, they went to Europe and they discover machinery because first they were doing ice cream by hand, you know. So in the 70s, they bring machinery from Italy and Germany.

 

Ashish Tulsian:

So from 36, or rather 38 to 70, 

 

Alexandre Bachir:

it was by hand.

 

Ashish Tulsian:

It was by hand. And you know, your grandfather and your father and four brothers, they were all helping the same business.

 

Alexandre Bachir:

Right, right, right.

 

Ashish Tulsian:

And this was one store, the original family store.

 

Alexandre Bachir:

In 77, 78, when they bring the machineries, they discover that in one hour, instead of in one hour, you know, you do approximately four or five kilos of ice cream and you sell it like bread, you know, you do ice cream in the morning. Right. And you sell it in the afternoon. When it’s finished, it’s finished. Come tomorrow, like before with the bread in Europe. So they discovered that in one hour they can do 50 kilo, 100 kilo.

So they start thinking, why not opening new shops? And that they open three shops in two years, 79, 80, in the region of Beirut. So for the Lebanese guy, Jounier, Jaledib and Achafieh. And that starts like this. So second generation and we are the third generation. So of course, I’m not alone. We are 14 cousins. 

 

Ashish Tulsian:

Oh, wow. Okay.

 

Alexandre Bachir:

I’m the oldest one, 53 years old. The youngest one is 31. Approximately more than half of them are working in the business. So I came back from France 15 years ago, 2010. Yes. And we start the third generation opening our own shops in Lebanon. So we start opening. So in 10 years, we opened approximately 40 outlet from South Lebanon to North Lebanon. So today we are everywhere in Lebanon. And in the same time, I have three cousins, Caroline, Marilyn and Jesse, who are living in Paris. And they decide eight years ago to open the first outlet of Bachir outside Lebanon. So today they have two outlets in Paris.

And I have another cousin, also Maurice and his brother, Pierre. They went to Sao Paulo and they opened also five years ago. They start to open Bachir stores in Sao Paulo. You know, it’s a big, a big village, 12 million inhabitants, and there is 4 million of Lebanese. 

 

Ashish Tulsian:

Oh, wow. I didn’t know that.

 

Alexandre Bachir:

Yes. Today, there is more Lebanese in Sao Paulo only than in Lebanon. 

 

Ashish Tulsian:

Wow, that’s new. I was not aware of that. Why is that?

 

Alexandre Bachir:

Actually, there is Lebanese everywhere in the world. But Sao Paulo is the biggest community outside Lebanon. I think there are six or seven million in Brazil only.

 

Ashish Tulsian:

Brazil was not a French connection or was it?

 

Alexandre Bachir:

No, no, no, no.

 

Ashish Tulsian:

It was Portuguese.

 

Alexandre Bachir:

Yes, yes, yes. And, but you know, when they left Lebanon, so the immigration of Lebanese, it’s very old. The first one was the Phoenician, you know. The Phoenician arrived to America before Christopher Columbus. So, yes, so he opened, now he’s opening his first outlet in Sao Paulo. Wow. So this is from my family. If you want to talk about me.

 

Ashish Tulsian:

No, I want to know about you, but, you know, in exactly that context, you said you started working, you know, you came back from France 15 years back and you started working in the family business or, you know, expanding it further. What was happening till then? Who was running it till then?

 

Alexandre Bachir:

Where? In Lebanon?

 

Ashish Tulsian:

Yeah. Till the time you came back from France.

 

Alexandre Bachir:

And the second generation, my father and my uncles.

 

Ashish Tulsian:

Oh, they were still active.

 

Alexandre Bachir:

They are still active today. They have 75 to 80 years old. They are still active. My uncle Eli is still dealing with the, with the production.

 

Ashish Tulsian:

That is one big family unit. And I think this is, this is phenomenal. Third generation, 14 cousins, you know, half of them, you said more than half of them are involved in the business. That is, that is big, complex.

 

Alexandre Bachir:

And the fourth generation coming, my son, 20 years old, starts working with me. The fourth generation, now they are 28. But small, small kids.

 

Ashish Tulsian:

What were you doing in France?

 

Alexandre Bachir:

So I was born in France. My mother is French. So my father went to France in the seventies to study art. So he met my mother. So I was born there. All my, my brother and sister was born there. So I grew up in, in south of France, in Carpentras, near Avignon. I studied there. And 15 years ago, I decided with my wife and my kids to come back to Lebanon.

 

Ashish Tulsian:

And till that time, what were you, like, what was your profession? Like what were you doing?

 

Alexandre Bachir:

Accountant. Less interesting.

 

Ashish Tulsian:

But, but, but I’m sure.

 

Alexandre Bachir:

Completely, completely different. Yes, completely different.

 

Ashish Tulsian:

No, no, it is boring.

 

Alexandre Bachir:

No, it was interesting, but completely different. When I decided to come back to Lebanon, I knew that I was, I need to switch to a new kind of life.

 

Ashish Tulsian:

But what, what made that move? Because if you were born in France and, you know, you, that you, you know, mentally, you may feel that you’re Lebanese. Of course, your roots are there, but, but there is definitely some dissonance of, you know, identity somewhere.

 

Alexandre Bachir:

Look, all my, my two, my two sisters and my brother are still living in Lebanon, in France, sorry. And they, it’s difficult to them to, to come. My, my brothers try to come and work with us, but it’s a little bit difficult to him because he has more French, how you say it?

 

Ashish Tulsian:

Habits. 

 

Alexandre Bachir:

Habits. Right, right. So why 15 years ago, I came back to Lebanon? Because of my father, because from the ancient, not ancient time, but when I was studying and I was not very good at school and at university. So every six months he said, you know, if you want to stop, you can stop, you can go back to Lebanon and everything is ready for you.

So 15 years ago, I said to my wife, let’s, let’s try. So we moved there, but I discovered and nothing was ready for me. You know, that the beauty, beauty of the family business that, that they run it, like they were running it 50 years ago. So yes, that’s, that’s it.

 

Ashish Tulsian:

But it’s very interesting. And that’s difficult, right? I mean, I, I, a friend of mine in India is one of the top business coaches. He’s a business consultant turned coach. And his specialty is that he coaches second and third generation entrepreneurs on how to do well in family business, right? And he has transformed at least 10,000 lives, 10,000 family businesses. Wow. You know, all the three generations or two generations actually thank him for fixing it. And when I asked him one day, I asked him, I said exactly what is it that you do with them?

Like, how does this work? Because I, I know that people are fans. So you definitely do something right. He said, well, 99.9% times when people come to me, 80% times, it’s the first, the second or the third generation coming to me, trying to, you know, super frustrated with their previous generation and saying they don’t know how to do this. And they don’t know how to expand. You know, they’re, they’re, they’re anti-progress. And, and he said 20% times, the first generation also comes to me and they’re like, my second generation is coming in and they don’t, they don’t know what we have gone through. They don’t have crazy ideas and they’re going to drown the ship. And he said, all I basically do is I manage that relationship, make both the parties understand each other’s perspective and try to create hard lines between what they should focus on and what the other party should focus on. And he said, a lot of things just fall in place because of that.

 

Alexandre Bachir:

And you know, we are human before. So in the, in the beginning we are human. So there are more psychologists, I think, because I was also frustrated. Of course, when I arrived, I said, okay, we’ll do that. We’ll do that. And I see that nothing changed. It’s very hard to, to, to, to move things. And I was frustrated for perhaps three, four, five years. And I discovered some, someone, a Lebanese girl was specialized in family business.

 

Ashish Tulsian:

Oh, wow. So exactly your story.

 

Alexandre Bachir:

Yes. And on LinkedIn, I, I connect her. I don’t know. It’s my brother who I connect through my brother. And I say, I need to, to, to talk to you because there is a big problem. And I went to, to, to her. We talk, I talk for one hour explaining what the problem is. After one hour, she was, okay, very good. You know, it’s a very simple. I said, what is very simple? It’s very simple because you told me about that. We can deal it like this.

You told me about that. You can deal it like this. So I discovered that all the, the family business have the same problem. Perhaps someone has this one more than this, but it’s the same problem. And so when she told me that, I said, okay, so it’s not me, the problem is them. We need to, to, to, to find something to connect, to continue. That’s it.

 

Ashish Tulsian:

You know, double tap on that. Like what, what was, what are the two, three things that you remember, you know, really frustrated you? And then how did you change that? How did you maneuver it?

 

Alexandre Bachir:

Because I was seeing my father and my uncle, they don’t want to move. I say, why? Future is here. We have a very beautiful brand. And after I said, no, it’s me. Why? I will, I will change them. I need to change me first to understand where, of course I’m working. I work for 10 years in Lebanon. I open shops. So I was directly in connection with this, the, the, the customer and everything, but also with the production, with the problem of, okay, marketing and everything. But I said, I need to, not to change, but I need to position myself to be able to talk to them.

 

And still today, I’m not trying, I’m not, not, I’m, I try, but I’m not having the right position. But now with my other cousins, we are trying to, to, to arrange that. And this is the difficulty.

 

Ashish Tulsian:

When you say that they were not moving, what do you mean?

 

Alexandre Bachir:

They are working like…

 

Ashish Tulsian:

They were working 40 years ago, 30 years back. 

 

Alexandre Bachir:

No Instagram. No, no, no, no, no, no, no advertising, no marketing. So now without hurting them, we open an Instagram account, say, look, it’s beautiful. Oh, okay. Okay. Nevermind. Do what you want to do. But you know, for example, when I arrived here in UAE, they were against the, the, the franchise model. Okay. I said, I will try. If it’s working, it’s not necessary to have it everywhere because in, in Paris, in Sao Paolo is owned by them.

So it’s managed by the family, but we can try. So that’s, that’s the beautiful. And because they are my family, if we, if we, how we said, if we, um, um, have bad, not bad words, 

 

Ashish Tulsian:

Tussle or you know, difference of opinion. 

 

Alexandre Bachir:

Yes. After one week, you know, every Sunday, if you are in Lebanon, we need to go and have lunch in my grandmother’s house. So we are 50 or 60 or 70 there. Even if I don’t talk with one of my cousins, I will go there and I will see him and I will talk to him. Right.

 

Ashish Tulsian:

So this has to happen every Sunday.

 

Alexandre Bachir:

Yes. Okay. So my, my grandmother and his, her sister. So my grandfather and his brother, okay. Uh, married my grandma, my grandmother and his, her sister. So two sister, two brother.

 

Ashish Tulsian:

Got it. Yeah. Okay.

 

Alexandre Bachir:

So my grandfather have four, four, four kids. My, uh, grand uncle didn’t have kids. So they live in one house. So my father, when he was young, he said, me, I, I have two father and two mother. So until, uh, five years ago, when my grandmother passed away with her sister, after one week, imagine they, they, they, they grew up in their family, um, house. They, they get married the same day with two brother. They, so they went to the new house in the same day and they passed away at one week difference.

 

Ashish Tulsian:

Yeah.

 

Alexandre Bachir:

That’s after 90 years. So, um, my grandmother, if they, if she knows that you are in Lebanon, she called me, where are you? It’s Sunday. You come. So every Sunday, everyone was so for the, for the, for the generation.

 

Ashish Tulsian:

So that means even if there is a conflict, it can only stay for a week at max.

 

Alexandre Bachir:

And if there is a professional conflict, it will not affect the, the, the family, family, uh, gathering.

 

Ashish Tulsian:

What are you, what are you saying is beautiful. I think in, in today’s world, very, very hard to find. And I, and I think, uh, you know, such kind of, uh, rooted upbringing and rooted family, uh, I think it’s a blessing. That’s, that’s quite amazing to hear. Uh, no matter how complex that makes the business, but, but it’s, it’s beautiful.

 

Alexandre Bachir:

And now the difficulties will be to, um, give this heritage to the fourth generation because the fourth generation is more, um, how we said, um, not displaced because diversify, you know, in France, in, in, in, so, uh, this is my purpose, my, my goal with my brother and my cousins, of course, because my kids were living in Lebanon. So they have the Lebanese, um, um, mindset mindset. Yes. And they, they knew my, my grandmother. So, but, uh, yes, 

 

Ashish Tulsian:

It is, um, you know, so when you, when you started, when did you start franchising in Dubai? 

 

Alexandre Bachir:

Three years ago. 

 

Ashish Tulsian:

And, and did you like, did you get a lot of value from, because UAE has a large Lebanese community and, you know, so many of them are enterprising, uh, individuals, hospitality and food is, you know, almost, I think second nature, you know, so many Lebanese people, which is, which is phenomenal. Um, did you get a lot of value for being that nostalgic brand from Lebanon? What’s, what’s been the journey of last three years of, you know, franchising?

 

Alexandre Bachir:

Actually the, the, the, the, the shop, the Bachir brand start in UAE with the Lebanese community. We start focusing on Lebanese community and they help us to develop to the other community. We are doing the same in Qatar. We just opened one month ago, a shop in Qatar. So it’s the same. So a lot of Lebanese doing our job of marketing, you know, Bachir is open. Who is Bachir? I don’t know. Bachir, it’s a, it’s an old brand, uh, from Lebanon. So they are doing the, the, the, the influencer job for us. Yes. Yes. The Lebanese community help us a lot.

 

Ashish Tulsian:

And, um, you know, was three years back, the first franchisee, you know, for you as a family?

 

Alexandre Bachir:

Yes. Yes. Yes.

 

Ashish Tulsian:

Yes.

 

Alexandre Bachir:

Actually in Lebanon, you have some, some shops who are not, uh, managed by us, but it’s not the, you know, they are, they are 20 or 30 years shop. So it was not the same, uh, uh, structure of a franchise, a modern franchise business. So yes, for, for Bachir, it was the real, uh, franchise model, new franchise model.

 

Ashish Tulsian:

You know, every brand wants to franchise and every brand is not able to franchise, like not, not everybody’s able to do that.

 

Alexandre Bachir:

Not everybody, but I think every brand wants to do that.

 

Ashish Tulsian:

And, and, uh, you know, especially with family owned legacy brands, this is the number one problem where your previous generations don’t want it to be in the hands of somebody else. How are you doing that? How has been the experience? What has been the highlight and the low light? What’s, what’s bad? What’s good?

 

Alexandre Bachir:

Multiple factor. First, um, before, uh, thinking about franchising, I start doing it after two years after my arriving to Dubai. So I, I tried to understand the market first because I knew that Dubai is a very big market, very, uh, very good market, but a very competitive, competitive, sorry. And today there is perhaps every month there is a new brand of ice cream. So I try to analyze it first, then connection. Uh, when I arrive, I opened my LinkedIn account and for me, it was a new world. So I connect with a lot of people and two of them, I’m still working with them today, six years after my first connection. And they helped me in, in both sector to help me to understand and to see the potential of the franchise business in Dubai. Because in the beginning I said, no, no, no, I will do something else.

Uh, Bachir, it would be too, too complicated. So, and of course, so this, so one guy’s is Christian Saloum. It’s, uh, still today, my advisory, my, my negotiator, my consultant in developing. And he put me in contact with my franchisee here. It’s Belhasa Hospitality. And, uh, you were talking about Lebanese, the GM of Belhasa is a Lebanese. So it was very, very interesting for me. And I, I don’t know if it’s easier, but even if, uh, Nassim Basmas, the GM of Belhasa Hospitality, didn’t know Bachir because he left Lebanon a long time ago. So, and in the South of Lebanon, there was no Bachir at that time. So he was Lebanese, but in the same time, he was very neutral regarding the brand. So you were asking, uh, if it’s possible to franchise a legacy brand, I think. 

 

And the second person was Hervé Collignon. Hervé Collignon was a design thinking specialist. And we work a lot on this, on how can we not rebranding because we did rebrand, but uplift a little bit the, the, the perception of the brand, especially in the, in the market, like, like, like Dubai, very multi.

 

Ashish Tulsian:

And Dubai can be, I mean, that’ll be my next question because Dubai can be a very, very tough market. 

 

Alexandre Bachir:

Yes. It is. 

 

Ashish Tulsian: 

You know, um, you know, there’s, there is more tourists, there are less, you know, uh, locals. You need to be, you…

 

Alexandre Bachir:

200 nationalities. So which one you will, you need to focus on it.

 

Ashish Tulsian:

Yeah. So you, so you’re talking about uplifting the brand.

 

Alexandre Bachir:

No, but so, so we, we start on this, uh, two, two aspect. And of course I discover, and of course my franchisee was not knowing that it will be my first franchise model. So he was very, uh, um, how he said, um, uh, he, he want to know how we will do, but in the same time, he helped me a lot.

 

Ashish Tulsian:

So he was considerate of the fact that you are doing it for the first time.

 

Alexandre Bachir:

We analyze income and the, the, the market. Today we have four, four outlets and we open it, uh, in a way that he was knowing the market and I helped him to, to, to develop it as a brand.

 

Ashish Tulsian:

Because they are in the hospitality business already. So they know the market.

 

Alexandre Bachir:

Right. Right. Right. Right. And I was, uh, we signed a franchise, you know, managing franchise. So I was not only the franchisor because I need to understand how we will implement this franchise model. So I work with them one year and a half. So it was like my previous job opening my own store because I opened six stores in, in Beirut in, in nine years, but with the professional team, professional department, marketing, MEP, uh, uh, everything. And I was working with them.

 

Ashish Tulsian:

So now you have four stores in UAE?

 

Alexandre Bachir:

Yes. And we have a fifth only in the, in the winter in the ripe market.

 

Ashish Tulsian:

And how has it, how has this been? How, how has the, how’s the response been?

 

Alexandre Bachir:

Very good. Very good. Because we are growing every year and we are adapting. The main things is also is adapting. You know, I, uh, we, we develop specific, uh, flavors. We don’t have it in, in, uh, in Lebanon.

 

Ashish Tulsian:

Give me an example.

 

Alexandre Bachir:

Dates, ice cream, dates, ice cream, uh, lemonmint, uh, rose. We have rose in Lebanon and in Paris, but rose with lukum. So, and of course we adapt, uh, cakes and the, the, so we do, uh, last Ramadan, we’ve done four specific, um, items for Ramadan.

 

Ashish Tulsian:

Pistachio?

 

Alexandre Bachir:

Uh, with Mafruke, you know, pistachio paste, these kinds of, of thing. And, uh, on the four product too, we’re doing very well.

 

Ashish Tulsian:

So how do you, how do you, like, why did you do this, uh, rose or lemon mint or dates? And my question is that, what do you mean by, you know, localizing to this market? What’s your research like? How did you know that these flavors should be there?

 

Alexandre Bachir:

We are analyzing, we see, we see that this is doing well and the customers also, customers told us, oh, why don’t, don’t you do that? Why don’t, of course, this after when I opened the first shop, because before it was not possible, but we said, why not trying this and this?

 

Ashish Tulsian:

Given Dubai is like a, you know, crazy market in terms of 200 nationalities and there are centers, which are office centers and there are centers, which are touristy centers and then there are local centers. Where is Bachir finding its home? Like when you think about a location, what that location is like?

 

Alexandre Bachir:

Actually, we have different location and every location have his own customers. You know, when, when we talk about city walk shop. Shops, more tourists. I think there is 60% of customers, they don’t come more than two, three, four times for two weeks and after you didn’t see them anymore. Our shops in Galeria Mall Barsha, it’s more delivery and more Lebanese and Indian also, Indian and Filipino. Indian are like the ashta flavor. Ashta flavor is a Lebanese flavor with salep and mistika. We put a little bit of rose water and we dip it in pistachio. It’s the cream of the milk. So they told me, I didn’t try it, but it’s a little bit like kulfi.

 

Ashish Tulsian:

I was about to, yeah.

 

Alexandre Bachir:

That’s it. So for example, Galeria Mall is more delivery and Arab community.

 

Ashish Tulsian:

But that’s fascinating. How are you catching attention of other nationalities who have no connection with Bachir?

 

Alexandre Bachir:

Look today, in the beginning, our focus was Lebanese. But today we are also talking a lot Arabic in our captioning on Instagram. And now after three years, of course, Qatar is very easy because 60 or 70% of our customers are Qatari people. Here there is not a lot of Emirati. You know, our customer, perhaps 10% or 15%. So in Qatar, it’s okay because we talk Arabic and everything is okay. And there is a lot of Lebanese and less European expat. But in UAE, we are now looking how we will catch up more kids and more expat other nationality of Arabic nationality. 

 

Ashish Tulsian:

How?

 

Alexandre Bachir:

We are trying.

 

Ashish Tulsian:

But give me an example. I mean, I’m curious because it’s very difficult to get that mind shared.

 

Alexandre Bachir:

No, no. But I just started two months ago working with… So four years ago, when I started, before signing an agreement, I’ve done big research and big analysis of the market with Hervé Collignon and his team, of course. But this was four years ago and before we opened. So it was assumption and everything. Today, we know what’s happening. So we have figures, you know. So two months ago, I started working with a new marketing consultant. So we are working on it to try it and to see how we need to continue to talk in UAE, but also in the GCC, because we are trying to open in Kuwait, in Saudi, in Oman, in Bahrain. So this is the interesting things of and of the marketing and of the tone of voice and everything. So if you want, I will send you everything when it will be finished, because I think one week or two weeks it will be finalizing. So we will start, of course, with UAE.

But look, also my franchisee here, with Belhasa hospitality, they start with in the marketing department, there was one girl, Lebanese girl as well. So it was easy for me to discuss and to like this. She understands better what I want to say, and she understands the brand as well better. Today, there are six people. So, of course, they are working a lot with me on developing the brand, marketing-wise. So now they have data analysts. They have, how you said, okay, so they are a real team. 

 

Ashish Tulsian:

And who are doing it more? With data? 

 

Alexandre Bachir:

Yes, day by day, we understand which post working more and….

 

Ashish Tulsian:

Alex, what has given that you took over or tried taking over from your father while he’s absolutely active and still involved. And your son, you said, is now joining you, is working with you to build it further. What has changed in you? And what is the change that you see in you as an entrepreneur in dealing with these things?

 

Alexandre Bachir:

So if I say for 15 years when I came back to Lebanon to now, I have a bigger picture of the business. Of course, when I arrived, even if I was 30 something, I was very, I need to change. We need to change everything. And we are not working good. And today, no, I said, thanks God, my grandfather and his brother, my four uncles worked like that because they give us a brand that we can today use and develop better than before. But so I have a bigger picture when I say bigger picture. So I, of course, I met a lot of people. And the most important is the ego, you know, if your ego is very big, you will not try to understand what people are telling, and you will not understand and you will not hear what people are saying. I don’t say that I changed.

 

I changed my point of view or but. And today, I think the best things you can do is put people around you that they are better than you and understand better some points because, OK, I’m an entrepreneur in Lebanon. When I arrived 15 years ago, I was doing everything. But you’re not Superman. So today, this so today now for perhaps one year, I enjoy doing this. So talking with people say, oh, this guy is very good for this branch, for this not branch, for this how we said department.

1. And because I see myself in five or 10 years, perhaps in 10 new country, I need to be surrounded by people who, of course, how we said, believe in the brand and believe in me, of course.

 

Ashish Tulsian:

But I think, you know, this is this beautiful what you just said, Jeff Bezos, founder of Amazon. He once said, and I think somebody interviewed him and wrote that in the book where he said, you know, a business or an entrepreneur goes through, you know, two stages. One stage is what needs to be done.

This is when that entrepreneur is in the play on the driving seat and continuously, you know, thinking about what needs to be done. And he said, and then comes a stage where he or she needs to think about who needs to be empowered. You know, and, you know, he said something. This is beautiful, because he said, when you start, you know, stop thinking what and you start thinking who, that’s exactly when you have transcended to the next level. That means after a point, your job is to empower, find the right people and then just empower them to do their job. You know, you don’t need to worry about what they need to worry about what. You just need to worry about who.

 

Alexandre Bachir:

Who and where.

 

Ashish Tulsian:

Yeah. Yeah. Direction is still your problem. Yeah. But that’s, that’s, that’s great. You know, when you, when you see your son, you know, coming in, what, what flavor is he, you know, bringing in? And I’m, and I’m asking this question from a, you know, Gen Z, you know, your son, you said he’s 22, right? So true Gen Z. What is it that you feel is different between, you know, what you think is the right thing to do and his ideas? Are they super wacky? How are you doing that? How are you dealing with it?

 

Alexandre Bachir:

Look, in the, in the beginning, first of all, I didn’t force him to, to join me, or it was naturally, of course, because from the beginning, 

 

Ashish Tulsian:

when I need to ask him, I mean, yes, 

 

Alexandre Bachir: (38:49)

of course. No, because my second son, he told me, no, please. He opened his own. My second son is 20. He’s opened his, his company three months ago.

 

Ashish Tulsian:

Oh, wow.

 

Alexandre Bachir:

And I was a little bit frustrated because when he told me, okay, I will do that, that, that with his friend, I said, okay, do you need my help? He said, no, no. How, how does?

 

Ashish Tulsian:

Yeah, that’s.

 

Alexandre Bachir:

You are 20. You don’t know anything. You don’t, you don’t know anything. He said, if I need something, I will come. After one month, he said, what happened with the company? It’s okay. I open it. He showed me his, his, you know, license and he said, you open it. And, and, but you need a website. I’ve done it. He done a website with Chat-GPT. So in the beginning, I said, he didn’t ask me any, you know, so any, how we said, any help. And, but now, of course, I’m very proud of it. 

 

Ashish Tulsian:

Of course. 

 

Alexandre Bachir:

I’m proud of him. And so if you, if you want to come to, to Marwan, so there’s 22, I think I, I, I hope, no, no, I didn’t force him because he is also working with, in parallel with another company, freelance. So, but he needs to help me and he wants to help me. Are you asking what the difference?

 

Ashish Tulsian:

Yeah.

 

Alexandre Bachir:

Look in the beginning, for example, I, I, I, he was coming for the everything meeting with marketing. I said, please come with me because I don’t understand anything in Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, TikTok. So he was near me. Presentation. Do you like it? I was looking at him. Do you like it? Yes. Yes. Very good. Yes. Very good.

Because, so this is the beautiful of the difference of generation. And I, I try to not be a father who said we need to do like this and that’s it. So.

 

Ashish Tulsian:

But is he, is he the reason why you’re saying that now you’re trying to target younger population?

 

Alexandre Bachir:

No, no, no, no, no, no, no. A younger population kids, because our brand is not kids friendly. So I’m trying to see that how, how we can, perhaps with a collaboration with a specific brand of kids we’ll see, but no, no, no.

But and today he’s the fourth generation for, for him. I think I am the first generation, but of course he, he, he, he, he knew my, my grandmother and my, of course, my father and my girl. So he’s very proud of the roots of the heritage of this brand. So.

 

Ashish Tulsian:

Are you, who do you compete with? Are you, do you think that your competition is other ice cream brands or is it the, or your competition is desserts or your competition is, you know, more Middle Eastern, Arabic desserts? Where, where, where do you draw the line?

 

Alexandre Bachir:

Definitely everything, every, every, no, no, because of course we as an, we are an ice cream brand. So we compete with all the ice cream brands, even it’s not, known, we are Lebanese. And if, if someone wants ice cream, if it’s a, I can talk about brands. 

 

Ashish Tulsian:

Why not? 

 

Alexandre Bachir:

No, no, because you know, it’s an ice cream brand. So of course we compete with all the ice cream brands, but of course, when we, we’ve done the, the cakes, so we competing with all the sweets brands as well. So yes, yes.

 

Ashish Tulsian:

But, but I, but I see, I see in Dubai and I don’t know if, I mean, you know, what, what is it in the rest of the Middle East? I’ve never taken notice, but I saw a couple of brands here in ice cream who are very, very high on offers and on discounts, collaboration with all kinds of banks, et cetera. So my, my feeling is, and this is my question. My feeling is that the business of ice cream here is really about, you know, promotions and discounts. And is that true? Is this, is this how you deal with it? Or what’s, what’s the reality?

 

Alexandre Bachir:

We try to, to, to not do that. But of course, especially with aggregator, you need to do discounts to, to be visible. But we are trying to, to, to have less discount and, but we still have, you know, package one kilo is half kilos and all this stuff. And it’s, it’s, it’s very tough. It’s very tough. And I don’t think doing a discount will help the brand.

 

Ashish Tulsian:

Yeah.

 

Alexandre Bachir:

And I think, you know, I saw yesterday that the force e-commerce luxury brand, not luxury e-commerce brand, they, they collapse the force in 2025, I think, because e-commerce is only on discount and having. So we are trying to, to, to have visibility, visibility of the brand to, to be understood how we want to be. I don’t know if I am telling the good things in English, but.

 

Ashish Tulsian:

No, you’re right. I understand. You want your customers to feel your brand and connect with your brand. Yes. And not just order ice cream because it was buy one, get one free. That’s it.

 

Alexandre Bachir:

That’s it. That’s it. And we are premium ice cream. So it could be.

 

Ashish Tulsian:

So all the manufacturing I understand is still central. Do you guys manufacture your, like all the production is centrally?

 

Alexandre Bachir:

For the, for the GCC, we are producing in UAE. Okay. Okay. For Dubai, for Qatar, if you are going to Kuwait, we will send to Kuwait. So yes, everything is, is produced here.

 

Ashish Tulsian:

Oh, the production is here. Yes. And same goes for France and Sao Paulo.

 

Alexandre Bachir:

Yes. Sao Paulo they produce in Sao Paulo and France they produce in France. And of course we have our own factory in Lebanon because we.

 

Ashish Tulsian:

How do you, how do you plan to keep the quality control when it is not?

 

Alexandre Bachir:

That’s a big, a big challenge. This is a very big challenge, especially if you want to, to, to expand for Africa, for example, you will not be able to, to send over from here or from Lebanon. So this is a big challenge. This is one of the big points we are working on. But it’s easier than a restaurant brand, you know, for example, a chicken brand.

 

Ashish Tulsian:

Correct. Correct. I mean, you have less moving parts, you can. Yes.

 

Alexandre Bachir:

Shelf life is, it’s, it’s, and it’s of course we have, there is a lot of how we say raw product, but it’s milk, sugar, chocolate, and this stuff. So it’s easier, but it’s a challenge because even here in UAE, sometimes on the 20 flavors, there is one or two little bits and our customer would be here too. It’s not like last month.

 

Ashish Tulsian:

Alex, how do you learn as a, as somebody who’s leading this organization and have a great vision to, you know, bring Bachir to the rest of the world? How do you learn personally? How do you keep yourself, you know, continuously hydrated on knowledge?

 

Alexandre Bachir:

Look, I, I hear a lot. I, I, I hear a lot people who are talking to me, even in my, if my wife, yes, because my wife didn’t talk about it, but my wife is very involved in the, she is the, how we said the, the, the taste, the taste of Bachir.

 

Ashish Tulsian:

Oh wow.

 

Alexandre Bachir:

Yes. Yes. She has a very good taste, you know, like the, the people who, um, uh, drink wine, sommelier.

 

Ashish Tulsian:

Yeah.

 

Alexandre Bachir:

She is sommelier in, uh, in ice cream.

 

Ashish Tulsian:

Oh, so she can actually tell you when something is off and what ingredients.

 

Alexandre Bachir:

For example, when we went to Qatar on the 20 flavors, it’s not good to tell this here, but it’s not a problem. She, she, she tastes everything because, you know, the container and everything. And there was one flavor, there was a small problem. So today we’re coming back. We spent our summer in Lebanon. So we came back two days ago, two days.

Today there was a testing in the, in the factory. So she, she went with me and said this, okay. But in this time they, they fix it and now it’s, it’s okay. So, um,

 

Ashish Tulsian:

That is amazing. 

 

Alexandre Bachir:

So you said, uh, how I learn, uh, I hear a lot and, um, 

 

Ashish Tulsian:

But how do you listen? Like, I mean, I understand what you mean, but how do you actively, do you do actively something? See, one is that when we, we listen, when somebody comes across, for example, I’m talking to you, you know, I may give you some, some advice, uh, and you may listen, you know, as a good listener, but, but do you actively also do something to learn and continuously keep yourself updated on what’s happening in the world and what can you do?

 

Alexandre Bachir:

Connection. Connection for me is very important in all the domain, not only in F&B or in ice cream. I like to understand how people are doing. And, um, uh, you said, uh, when I decide something, okay. I’m, I ask a lot. Okay.

So to take a decision, I don’t take a decision alone in my, in my room. Of course, first I, I talk with my family, my wife and my kids. And after I take advice, but when I take a decision, finish, I take it and it’s for a long time, but, um, I’m, uh, so I, I, I, I told you that I was, I study accounting, so it’s nothing to do with the entrepreneur, but, uh, the ground working on the ground is very interesting. I think these 10 years in Lebanon, um, helped me to, to understand a lot of things.

 

Ashish Tulsian:

But your accounting background is also helping you make sure that the numbers are right. And your focus is great on numbers. Does it, does it help?

 

Alexandre Bachir:

No, because, you know, you know, they say in French, uh, the, the, the guy who was working on the shoes, they have bad shoes. How we say this?

 

Ashish Tulsian:

Yeah.

 

Alexandre Bachir:

So my, my first years in Lebanon was very terrible in accounting because I was working on everything and accounting is not very important. So I make, I made, uh, uh, big mistakes with the finance.

 

Ashish Tulsian:

I feel better about myself than now because I, I was, I was, I, I’m very good with numbers, but I hate, I hated finance. Um, and I’m an engineer. I was always extremely science oriented, very geeky. And, uh, so I hated finance as a subject in terms of, you know, doing it. I was good with numbers, but that’s just math. That’s not accounting.

And, uh, I can tell you for first, um, uh, 10 years of my entrepreneurial journey, I neglected finance like a plague. Like it was not only neglected. I used to run away from it.

I, I used to be like, I don’t even, I don’t want to do anything with it. You know, I will tell my accountant, do whatever you want. Tell me how much money is in the bank and we’re fine. When there is a problem, just tell, just call me. And of course, learned it the hard way that if you want to run a business, you need to be very, very good for the finance. And finally, 10 years back. So out of my, of my 20 year journey, it’s literally two parts.

 

Alexandre Bachir:

Of course, it’s very interesting to have a finance background, especially now for P&L and all this stuff. I understand the picture.

 

Ashish Tulsian:

Correct.

 

Alexandre Bachir:

It’s easier for me, but, uh, yes, yes, yes.

 

Ashish Tulsian:

Yeah. That, but it doesn’t help as much when you’re overwhelmed, uh, you know, with, with so many things. Bachir, uh, Alex with, for Bachir, um, you know, when you’re talking, I mean, when I asked you that central production, uh, unit, I think I wanted to double tap on that, but as you’re growing your franchisee, your network, and given that it is three years old, I’m sure you might have had bad experiences already or no.

 

Alexandre Bachir:

With the production?

 

Ashish Tulsian:

With franchisees, with, you know, because when you’re dealing with franchisees, you’re dealing with business owners, you know, outside of you. How do you, have you had any bad experiences so far and how do you deal with that?

 

Alexandre Bachir:

The good thing is that, uh, I have one franchisee per country. So it’s, it’s, it’s easier for me. Of course, it’s more difficult to choose the right one, but when you choose it is easier because you don’t have to, I’m not doing like, uh, I don’t know, Subway, perhaps they have one franchisee per store.

 

Ashish Tulsian:

Correct. Correct. Yeah. That’s crazy.

 

Alexandre Bachir:

So I have a franchisee for the global, for all UAE, one for Qatar. I’m looking for one for Kuwait. So, um, I have bad experience looking for a franchisee. I signed MOU with some people that was not good and hopefully, and thanks God, we didn’t sign the franchise agreement, but for now, thanks God, I didn’t sign a franchise agreement with a bad franchise. 

So, uh, I think the, the, the qualification of a franchisee, this is the, the main, uh, the main job, the main things to do to understand. And I think actually when, when we sign an MOU, I travel to see the people, of course I do a KYC, but the KYC is papers, but connection, of course, we do a lot of, uh, Zoom call before, but the connection is very important. Uh, I think it’s the most important.

 

Ashish Tulsian:

What is one ice cream brand in the world that you admire and you want to be?

 

Alexandre Bachir:

I want to be the Häagen-Dazs of the Middle East.

 

Ashish Tulsian:

I, I, I, this is, this is a phenomenal story. And I think, uh, I see that you have something special, not only, you know, have such a, you know, complex yet, you know, close family loop running a beloved brand, but at the same time, you know, your, your next generation and your family’s fourth, uh, joining in.

 

Alexandre Bachir:

Yes. Thank you.

 

Ashish Tulsian:

Thank you very much for doing this. It was a great conversation.

 

Alexandre Bachir:

Thank you for having me and thank you to the team.